Nov 16
The Dark Night of the Soul (part III)
THREE PHASES TO TRANSITiON
You might remember in one of my earlier postings (July 2) that there were three phases that you will go through in completing any Transition. You will navigate through those same three phases, desire, discipline and delight as you transition through the Tabernacle. In the Outercourt you are filled with the desire for change and anything is better than where you are. Desire is an adrenaline that sends you charging toward your future – often without looking where you are going.
DISCIPLINE AND OBEDIENCE
Here in the Holy Place, the first of two covered Rooms of Mystery, you are now well within the Discipline phase. Again it is through discipline you learn obedience. Discipline can be self induced or externally induced but a lifestyle of obedience cannot be achieved without it. Yes, there are moments in this room that may seem unfair - others are getting away with the very things you have to let go of. But then, they are not in this room and you are. Even now, the mystery of the next room, the Room of Delight, where the intimacy of Spirit to spirit communion is experienced is drawing you. Without your conscious awareness this growing oneness is already changing the rhythm of your heart.
One of the greatest disciplines you can achieve is found in the letting go of the vision you’ve told everyone you are going to do. The very vision God gave you, the very vision that when accomplished, will prove you are worth something – you have made it. This type of thinking proves it is your agenda and no longer God’s that you are making every effort to accomplish, even when you believe that in fulfilling it you will have completed what God has called you to do. Yes, the very vision that God gave you that proves you hear from God can actually become your ‘agenda’. To the degree you need to prove something, that is the degree that it has become “your agenda.”
PERSONAL AGENDAS PRODUCE ISHMAELS
It is not that God didn’t give the vision to you, it’s that you think you can accomplish it in your own strength. Such was the feeling of Abraham and the fruit was Ishmael. Personal motives mixed with a vision from God will always produce Ishmael’s as you look for your own provision to accomplish God’s call. Here is where we learn “When God guides He provides.”
On a personal note, and perhaps to comfort you a little, I have had a few Ishmaels in my life, and the resulting pain can be almost debilitating. In fact, it nears paralyzation, which is just one step away from petrification. One sign of the onset of petrification is spiritual immobility – or the inability to have consistent, focused prayer. Here in this room, you will learn to pray again as discipline tends to generate desperation. In a sense discipline is God protecting you from spiritual immobility or to a lesser degree spiritual atrophication, which is the degeneration of spiritual strength and a loss of the very desire to pray.
DO YOU HAVE AGENDA’S?
Do you have an agenda? Hummmm, well let’s see. Agendas can be hidden to you or known to you. Yet, it makes no difference; they must be eradicated before you walk into the next room – the Room of Delight. Some of the signs of a personal agenda are; an argumentative nature, defensiveness, jealousy, exaggeration, identity in your gift, aggressiveness, and a feeling that you are barely surviving. There are other signs, but these will do for a start.
So, it seems many of you have an agenda, if you do not, you are a rare bird indeed and as such you will proceed speedily through this room and the dealings of the furniture herein. However, if you eventually find your progress to be somewhat slower than you imagined, you might want to take another look at the matter of accomplishing God’s desire in your own strength – these are personal agendas.
At this stage in your spiritual development, it is often difficult to distinguish your agendas from God’s. Soul and Spirit seem so intertwined. However, the ability to distinguish between Soul and Spirit are obtained as you implement the elements found within this room.
HOW LONG WILL THE DARK NIGHT OF THE SOUL LAST?
How long will the Dark Night of the Soul last? It will last as long as it takes you to get rid of your agenda and your self-sufficient strength. Be of good cheer you will make it if you do not quit.
Blessings
John Paul
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WOW, dead centre right on target…There is not a single word out of place as concerns where I am…
But there is truth in “no pain, no gain”. It is sufficient for me to know that if I don’t quit, that I will make it. I’ve quit once before, it would be foolish to quit once more…
Only Godly honor could begin to thank you for your goodness!
God Bless!
Have we discussed the furniture in this room and how to apply it? Just want to make sure I didn’t miss something. I want to cooperate with the Holy Spirit…. the Room of Delight sounds pretty great right about now!!!
I really like that part about identifying one’s own agenda.
Thank you for taking the hard learned lessons of your walk and helping us through similar issues in our lives.
Our hard headedness (or heart) can keep us in a holding pattern on the runway when we should be flying to our next destination. We can choose the easy way, or the hard way.
Blessings,
David
Two weeks ago the speaker at Church was speaking about the difference between “believing” and “trusting.” - Just what I needed to hear. A simple definition of belief is: to accept as true, and trust means to - place in one’s care - to place confidence in.
The other day I went to the beach late in the afternoon to watch the sunset. As I was sitting there watching the sun set I got a burst of inspiration and I wrote this poem.
I titled it, Trust
Eyes have not seen, nor have ears heard; All God has in store, for those who trust in His Word.
His mystery is much greater, than our minds can comprehend. The eternal nature of His ways - Glory without end.
On earth as it is in heaven, Jesus taught us to pray. Prayer - changes our perspective, to see the Glory of His ways
Out of His mouth comes a sharp double-edged sword. He is the Righteous Judge, King of kings & Lord of lords.
He leads us to repentance, frees us from our sin, Cleanses by His blood; now we can enter in.
Traveling down this path; we’ve done all that we can. I can hear Him say;“Just place your heart into My hands.”
Though I falter on this path, and my faith it seems so frail. I trust in His unfailing Love; I know His purpose will prevail
As I waited on the Lord, He renewed my thirsty heart. I’ve been drinking at the fountain, in the river of delight.
No longer in denial! His Word has pierced my heart. Transforming me within; I’m, oh so thankful for this trial.
This long dark night, will one day come to an end. For He is my Loving Father, trustworthy and faithful Friend.
On that final day, when we look into His eyes; We’ll forever be with Him – Heaven’s eternal prize.
Lyle
This post has touched me deeply. It helps tremendously to know the process I’ve been in is of God.
I’m at the point where I have reaped the reward of my agendas, spiritual atrophication, as you put it. God is so very kindly and loving drawing me back into prayer. But it seems that our relationship has changed now. I know nothing, He knows everything. It’s quite freeing, actually.
I wonder how many other agendas are rolling around in me. Looking forward to your next post.
Thank you.
hahah. this statement …”if you do not, you are a rare bird indeed and as such you will proceed speedily through this room and the dealings of the furniture herein”
it reminds me of a podcast message john thomas gave on holy spirit canaries..probably one of my favorite bridge messages ever.
good stufff.
i giggle and chuckle at the birds analogies..they synchronistically seem to be everywhere of late…
I’m grateful for this place of correspondence, relating, identifying with people that can account to this experience. For every entry I find some fragment of what i am and have been experiencing. I beleive myself to be in the room of mystery though i am also at a place where i don’t want to presume that i know anything anymore. This place is like none other, I spent a year in the desert, with intimacy in relationships falling empty and cutting off and the only plea in my heart was “is this all that life is about.” Go to church bask in all the wonders of the Lords presence to then go out of the church to a defiling, immoral world, full of pollutants, and contaminants, yet being ineffective and of no influence in other peoples lives. To then being lead on a journey out and away from the people of your life, yet moving vivaciously, dependently upon the Lord, for all his facets. A two year journey of living, moving, being sent, tasting purpose, experiencing strength phenomenal, with Him as Counselor, Friend, Prophet, Teacher, Exhorter, Comforter, Just Him in Every Kind of Way, yet grieving, travailing, lamenting, wailing, daily crying out because of loosing your loved ones to the world, or rather the enemy of the world, and better yet, those people having been assigned to persecute you, condemn you, afflict you. Yet, Jesus, God the Father, and the Holy Spirit present every single day, every step of the way.
(Moderator Note: This post was edited due to excessive length)
I’m coming to realize God’s agenda is much better than mine anyway……..who would’ve ever thought that my neighbor just up the road (Sarah Palin) would put Wasilla, Alaska in the national spotlight. We also share a mutual friend who happens to work for her !!! I’m just blown away with all of this !!! Our God is SO awesome !!!!!!
Dear John Paul,
What you describe here fits my journey to the letter, and yes, I find great comfort in knowing you have had a few Ishmaels in your life. If that is part of the process that has allowed you to reach such a point of maturity where you are then able to minister to others as you are doing, then I say to God: I am going wherever you are taking me!
I have recently produced an Ishmael(my first,I think) and yes, the result has been incredibly debilitating. I recently described to my pastor feeling like someone playing a board game with others and being ahead of everyone else, and when it is my turn to throw the dice again, it falls on one of those boxes which sends you right back to the Start.
I literally feel like I was on the edge of a major breakthrough in terms of a newly found calling in ministry and I was just starting to step out of my comfort zone and follow that calling passionately and relentlessly, and from one day to the next what seemed to be a perfectly good “plan” and “move” for want of a better word, has just been taken away from me, like sand that falls through one’s fingers.
And yes, I totally relate to the inability to pray. I had been leading a prayer group for months, and as of late I find the words will just not come out when I am in a praying session with others. That was the first sign which made me realise that as The lord had given me, He had now taken away. Your post really helps me understand why He took it all away when He had put that desire in my heart in the first place.
It is a painful and disconcerting thing to go through, but at the same time, I am much more frightened of becoming one of those people we constantly hear on the media who has stepped into ministry before they have been refined in the Holy Spirit’s fire and polished, and then goes on to stumble and fall, and worse still take others down with him/her.
Thank you again for throwing light into what has been a dark time in my journey. I am filled with hope that there is a divine purpose to all of this.
God bless you
ransom33 @ http://www.ransom33.wordpress.com
I would have to say that I have come to this place that I have let go of any vision that I once had. After so many years go by, you come to this place where you just lay it down. It doesn’t seem to matter any more. The only thing that really matters to me is being in the presence of God. Does that sound hard to believe? Some times just being with God is sufficient.
Blessings
Thank you so much for these three articles. I’ve been going through this process but didn’t really understand what was going on. Go brought your website to mind and low and behold you described what I’m going through perfectly. Now I have more courage to go through the process. Lord bless you!
You’ve done it again Propeth JPJ!! I am so right in the midst of this room!!! My mouth dropped as you discussed the “agendas” as I just recently faced a moment of regret over letting some of my past agendas go and for a split second I almost looked back but I am so glad that God’s grace is sufficient and I pressed through the heartache and pain that I forgot was there, (like you said in the post) and I rememebered that I have released that vision back to the One who gave it to me and I must trust and rely solely on Him and not myself to see it manifest! Thanks so much for guiding us through this process, I can’t wait to see whats around the corner in the next room!!!!
I have also come to this place where I realize that it is time to confront a stronghold that has been holding me back. I was remembering something that you had said in a previous post. One thing that has changed with me is that I respond faster than I have in the past. Because I understand that I cannot go on the this way any longer and I have to go forward into the deeper things of God. God, take me forward, take me in to your presence. I surrender. I surrender all to you.
Blessings
I thought I had rid myself of my agendas, but on rereading this post, the Lord showed me where I had simply changed my agenda.
I was very struck by the description that we may feel like we are barely surviving as a clue to let us know that we have an agenda. If not for those words, I would still think I had none.
Thank you.
In fact, i don’t even understand what John Paul is writing. But i love the simplicity of the Father’s prayer. This is what i shall try to put in practise.
I believe in a God Who is beyond our human understanding, Someone Whom we know so little about, He does according to His will and who can restrain Him?
When He works He sees eternity but we only see our little picture. In fact the less we know the word, the less we know Him. And really what do we know about love?
Yet i know Him, i see the consistent word in His dealings with men here. Immature ones are those who cast the first stones when they don’t know Him. For the record i only managed to read this latest word yesterday, and i don’t want to take the glory when it belongs to Him.
“Be of good cheer you will make it if you do not quit.”
This is helpful because sometimes I feel I can’t do it anymore. Even if I have the thickest heart and skull on the planet, this says to me that if I just keep going I’ll make it.
Thanks for being a cheerleader!
I guess I’m realizing I have made prayer my agenda and that is probably why it didn’t last. At our church our leader’s really try to help you find your calling and pursue it, our pastor released us to dream! So, we are all on this mission to find what it could be. I just thought, we’ll Lord, I’m not too sure but what I desire and what I feel I need before I step out into some of the prophetic words I’ve personally gotten was a “desire” to be a woman of prayer firstly then any gifting’s that moves out of me will be in line with you. I decided to pray for one hour a day except on Sunday’s and I did for about 3 months. I was praying for the church and all this good stuff, then my husband just started changing into this real ugly person and says some real direct things to me to the point that we had to go into counseling and get some help so that we could continue being married. My desire for prayer went away I think because I’m more afraid of what happens to me personally when I do pray. But I’m getting “ready to pray again.”
Long before I knew dreams were anything or anything about dreams I had a dream of a little girl hanging on a cross crucified and a huge fire swept up over her, and she came out of it . . . healed and whole. I never imagined it would be so painful. I never read the fine print. In the middle of it. Wretched grief. I am leaving behind the person I know to become a person I don’t know. Somehow Cinderella doesn’t fit into the deeper Christian life.
The truth is I’ve had enough pain, discouragement and dissappointments in my life. I’m 64 and I just don’t want anymore grief. Glad you folks are so anxious.
I am so glad I found this blog absolutely not by coincidence. I have gone back and read all the posts about transition. I am so there and this helped me greatly. I am unemployed for the 1st time in 15 years. Huge step of faith. Don’t have a plan for the first time in my life and it feels freeing. God has provided huge grace, peace and provision to confirm I’m where He wants me right now. I am praying to learn everything He has for me and prepare me for the next season. It’s been a long 5 years professionally and personally but it has all been worth it. I look forward to more posts and wisdom.
Excellent content and style…keep up the good work!
“To the degree that you need to prove something … that is the degree it has become your ‘agenda’” ….
Ouch …. well said!!
AYE! Que,JOHNNY!!You know I thought I was moving along with some momentum, but the discription of agenda’s just put the breaks on. When I first began to read of your early “Streams Of Shiloh, many times the pages would fly across the room and crash at the bottom of the wall..but later I would pick them up and read them again, sometimes I would fly them again, but God would win every time. This is why I can call you my friend, JP and this time I will go the distance. Mahalo from Kauai Art.
This blog is so cool. Thank you JPJ for this teaching and insight. I went through such a dark night of the soul that I don’t think I have ever come out of it. After my husband died a few years ago, I simply became numb to God. Now, as I get older, my passion for God is waining, although I do not want it to. Is this normal when we age? What do I do to stay close to God as I once knew him?
John Paul:
ok, I am not sure if this fits into my own agenda, for I have often prided myself as not having much of one because I gave up so much (not enough at times) in my life meaning the natural tendency of my own will for the will of God. Often times messy and not as neat and compact as I would have liked it to be. I was tested this weekend when the Lord had beckoned me to visit the North Bridge Church in the evening service. I didn’t know anyone, and I was petrified of going to a place without my husband (he had to work), a place with complete stranger’s. I procrastinated and got lost on the way to Beverly, where you were speaking and by the time I got there I was wrestling with the Lord on why I should just turn around and leave. I do not like being late for anything especially if there is an anointed leader like yourself that has blessed many of us here on your coffee talk blogs. By the time I had enough nerve to enter the foyer, I felt so embarrassed and didn’t know whether to cry or laugh. I didn’t understand the reaction in my inner man, like I crashed the meeting…or I wasn’t suppose to be there. Which was not what the Lord was telling me. So, I know it was fear and its sad to say I thought I was healed of the fear of man.
But, I think God wants to go deeper and remove this piece of furniture for how can I successfully do ministry, fellowship with others or even sit under a ministry that I know will be beneficial when I still have a fear of man. I think this is another reason, that I pick jobs that give me a limited amount of people around me..I get overwhelmed around people that I have never meant and then I want to run for the hills. Many people in ministry have hurt me when they did not even realize it and maybe on some level, I hurt them too through rejection and so I have a tendency to stay away from many situations that may be helpful. I even feel this way with member’s of my own family. I believe that I need to be delivered once and for all of the fear of man especially believer’s but i want to be ready to let all go but it is hard at times and it is sad to say, I keep taking it back. So, please pray for me for this deliverance. How can I truly experience the love of God through my fellow believer’s if I am fearful or suspicious of impending doom or disaster? I need to get off of this roller coaster. I thought that I was completely healed of this because, it stems back from my childhood. It was a big step for me to come out by myself to Beverly on Sunday night. I am still taking deep breath’s, thank you for your prayers!
Blessings!
Shirley C.
John Paul:
A member of WSTK-ITV Media Missionary Team, has sent us a video of a former satanist and You Tuber who just recently came to the Lord, here is the testimony. This just goes to show that that Lord wants a very strong christian presence on You Tube because there are many satanist who are producing dark video’s. Anyways here is the video testimony. God Bless You! We need to keep this person in prayer.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dhXSQjxW3gU
Shirley C.
Shirley C.,
I can relate to everything you are saying and I completely understand where you are at. I just want to encourage to keep taking steps forward to freedom. I had a lot of trauma in my life and God has been taking me through a process of healing. He will bring you to a place where you are ready to take a big step forward. It is not easy to face what you fear, but it is the way to freedom. I will be praying for you and I believe that you will be set free.
Blessings
Thank’s Wendy. Bless you!
Dear John Paul,
I don’t know if you can reply to people personally or answer a question via your blog, but I thought I’d ask something….
It is something that I am trying to make some sense out of, mainly in order to understand what God may be doing in this season & so I can line up with what He wants to do in & through me.
Background to Question: Alot of people have been talking this year of 2008, as a year of ‘new beginnings’ according to the hebraic interpretation of the meaning of the number 8. Also, that this year will be a year of favour for the Body of Christ.
(This is something that I have observed actually happening in other Christians lives around me)
Question: How does this (having favour, new beginnings, answers to prayer) fit or work in believers who are going through a ‘Wilderness’ or ‘Dark Night of the Soul’?
Because as you are in the ‘Wilderness’, this is usually a time of not very much happening on the surface.
For me, I believe I am going through the ‘Dark Night of the Soul’ & it often feels like I am in hiddeness (not experiencing Gods presence & also almost being invisible to people around me - especially in the Church). I have tried to step out & make friends but it feels like its all in my own strength & nothing is coming out of my efforts.
Regardless of this all, I know that I can trust God fully, for He is in control of everything in my life.
I thought that I’d ask the question to see if you had any words of wisdom or experienced something like this yourself.
God bless you,
Kiran
I want to wish John Paul and all the fellow bloggers here on Coffee Talk, a joyous and Happy Thanksgiving. And may we all be quick to count our blessings instead of sheep…no pun intended (lol)!
In His Love,
Shirley C.
Personal motives mixed with a vision from God will always produce Ishmael’s…
Nicely put. Yes we have so many Ishmaels but praise God his Grace will always produce Isaac. Though we may fall but God will always give us a chance to get back to our feet and start over…
It is really hard to distinguish whether we doing our own motives or God’s plan.
Thanks for your post.
If you may please visit my blog:
http://www.corneroflove.wordpress.com
May the Lord bless us with his Grace to “Act and to Will” according to his purpose.
See! This is cool and raises so many quetions. I totally have gone through this myself and when I was in the internship we had the chance to ask quetions such as related to this topic and my mind went totally blank! lol No fair!
Sometimes it feels like the Holy Spirit which sanctifies leaves me in the mess for a while. I wonder why that is?
-Shaun
I use to fear and reverence man instead of Christ. So I needed their approval and input. But what you say is true, in this room where only one can go at a time there is no unwanted company in my head, no job, no conversation with man, no fleshly input as to when, where and why I am here. Just waiting on HIM! Trusting that it was all worth it! Knowing He can not fail and won’t! Allowing his love and compassion to flow through me. It took a letting go of a lot of anxiety and fear and impatience. It still takes holding on to His peace and standing still. Hearing His voice an not following another. Learning to really know Him, Walk with only Him, Seeking only Him! To rely on and obey Him alone! This relationship I now have with the Father, that I fought so hard to not know, is the best place I have ever been and I never want to leave. Along the way I have learned how to love me. Because I found HIM in me and I love Him dearly.
I pray that His presence will remain with me always. No, turn that around, I should say I pray I will never fear again and leave him .
God Bless you! your posts on transsions have helped immensbly..thank you! on this partIII you said one of the signs of having an agenda was a feeling of not surviving? could you make that a little clearer? did you mean surviving the process of the transsion itself or is it relating to something else? thank you i appreciate a response
new to this website. i’m responding to the November 16th,2008 blog on “agenda’s”. Several years ago our leadership team was going through a very challenging time. Our church had just moved into a new building, and one of the prophets in our Body had had a dream in which there was someone walking through the halls of the new building with a an ‘agenda’ folded up and shoved into their back pocket. One afternoon, while sitting in traffic, I was asking the Lord about how to pray into the leadership issue and the prophetic dream, but got no response. So I changed tactic’s and asked Him what is the question I should be asking? He said, Ask Me what’s in your back pocket?”. OK. Lord, what’s in my back posket? He said, “The vision for ministry you carry in your heart, the gifts and anointing I’ve put within you.” These are the things that are in your back pocket. But I want you to understand, that even though I’ve given you that vision and those gifts, they are only the tools of My Kingdom but they are not My Kingdom.”
As we grow and mature in our walk with the Lord, He will periodically test our hearts to see if we have allowed the “tools” of the Kingdom to become more important than the Kingdom. I have found, that prior to each new upgrade of anointing and ministry, Father will allow a season of testing that tries my ‘blue jeans’ to see if I have any thing hidden in my back pocket or not. As Jesus said in the gospels, where your treasure is, there your heart will be also. Before He will trust us with His treasure, Holy Spirit will always give us a ‘heart check’ first so that can empty out our back pockets.
The first time I read this article I was one who did not get it. However, even this morning through a dream God has revealed to me I am one of these that you are speaking of. I knew I was in a place, but not knowing where. These series of blogs have confirmed the dream I had, what I have been feeling & more importantly wonderful clarification. I love the part about how God uses people who irritate us. This is one of the things that I get so mad at myself about because I want to love all people and these repeated irritations really stir the dross. However, let it rise (the dross) oh Lord so that I can be rid of it once and for all. Once again seeing the irritation for what it is reminds me that it is more about the condition of my heart & not so much the person whom I struggle with.
~Thanks so much!
All I can say is WoW! Thank you for such a wonderful artical. My friend and I were having a conversation about letting go of things that I know God gave me as a vision in my heart.I was driven but never went anywhere.Your word help me see clearly the problem was all along in my own self serving heart. I have been in a very dry place. I fill like I can pick up and go again. Thank you for your Spirit filled word!