Apr 3
Satan and Absolutes
Now that you have had a Selah moment or a chance to ponder my last posting I want to continue this train of thought for just a little longer. Why? Because I do not want you to misunderstand what I am writing and I also want you to understand what Paul wrote in the Book of Romans.
What I have written is what the Apostle Paul wrote, only using a little different vocabulary. True, Pure, Deep, Spirituality cannot happen as long as we think absolutes are dead. Yes, once the absolutes are written on our heart, we do not have to think on absolutes, they become spiritual habits or a way of life. But, we need to know they are there when confusing choices lie before us. They help us separate the Tree of Life from the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil and every choice comes from one of those two trees.
IS THE LAW DEAD
Therefore, I am not saying the Law is to be carried out to the letter, the letter of the Law still kills. However, we keep thinking this means the Law is dead, yet isn’t what Jesus said true? He came not to end the Law, but to fulfill the law – how? So how is the Law fulfilled but not dead? Simply this, Jesus was the bodily representation or application of the Law among us. When we look at Him we see the Law of God applied.
In following Him, the Law should move from our head to our heart. The Pharisees could not make that transition thus Jesus spoke to them and said, “You search the Scriptures, for in them you think you have eternal life; and these are they which testify of Me.” In other words they did not want to apply the Law to their theology – their logic, pride and personal agendas blinded them and kept the Law the Law and they missed the application of God’s Love applied to their life.
If we would pause to think about it, the very embodiment of Scripture, the Word, the Son of God, was standing there among them and they thought He was the son of Beelzebub.
It is the application of the Law that allows us to know that stealing is still illegal, murder is illegal, adultery is still immoral, incest is still a crime; all are part of the Law – all are absolutes applied to life. Only the True, Pure, Holy Spirit of God can reveal the application of the Law to turn the Law into the absolutes of life.
SATAN IN HEAVEN
Think about this - Satan was in Heaven for a long time before he fell. He fell because he did not acknowledge the absolutes of God. Satan actually thought that God’s absolute attributes of Omniscience, Omnipresence, Omnipotence, and Immutability were not absolute. If He knew they actually were absolute, then he was stupid to try supplant God. I doubt Satan is stupid, because as the “anointed cherub” that would mean God created a stupid cherub to hover over His throne – NOT!
Satan must have thought God was not absolute in any way to think he could win that battle. We can make the same mistake today. We can misjudge God’s absolute nature and think He is just a higher life form that is making suggestions as to how we should live. No wonder Jesus told the Pharisees their father was the devil – in principle, they thought the same way Satan did when he tried to overthrow God. Let’s not make the same mistake.
SELAH
John Paul
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God’s ways can be difficult to understand, with our limited human minds. But we have a Helper in the Holy Spirit! If we let Him, He will help us to move that head knowledge into our hearts.
http://www.renaebrumbaugh.com/?p=93
Blessings, JP!
Selah is our last daughters name she’s in Heaven and her twin brother is here with us his name is Jacob Dublin we love the names the earthly authorties declared her dead in womb and Jacob in trouble and wanted to do something we said no thank you we will trust our Father in heaven Dublin is a great name an Irish king had lost his children in a flooded river he said if ST.Patrick raised them from the dead he would declare his town a christian nation Patrick did pray and Jesus answered dublina was the kings daughters name and she came back from the dead and so Dublin gets its name from that kings word and so we celebrate Jacobs life from the dead with his name as well. Our words have power backed up by the King of kings and Lord of lords so we who believe chose life SHALOM
These last few posts have been really helpful to me. I think they can bring clarity and re-alignment to many of the issues Christians daily face - and are much simpler than many of us (or at least I) tend to make it. Thanks.
“We can misjudge God’s absolute nature and think He is just a higher life form that is making suggestions as to how we should live. No wonder Jesus told the Pharisees their father was the devil – in principle, they thought the same way Satan did when he tried to overthrow God. Let’s not make the same mistake.”
Seems this is what so many people in the world are doing today, especially those who are in the world of entertainment. Some of them acknowledge God, and say they believe. They all want be thought of as spiritual people. Yet, they do not adhere to the absolutes of God, and have conjured up a new character for God in their minds and hearts, that allow them to live their lives with no Godly morals or consequences to their ungodly actions. In doing this they deny the power, deity, purity, and holiness of God.
Selah! I love this.
You had written: ” It is the application of the Law that allows us to know that stealing is still illegal, murder is illegal, adultery is still immoral, incest is still a crime; all are part of the Law – all are absolutes applied to life. Only the True, Pure, Holy Spirit of God can reveal the application of the Law to turn the Law into the absolutes of life.”
So then I ask of you, was Jesus disciples taking the donkey stealing? Was David lifting food from the tabernacle theft? Or even still was Rahab the prostitute and her lies evil? It says that Rahab protecting the spies was an act of faith and righteousness, but she was dishonest in her dealings of how it went about.
I ask this, not to be supporting ‘lawlessness’ but rather that there is a higher place of living that is of spirit, and where laws fulfilled in Christ are concluded by living by the spirit of Christ. Many have said they lived by Christ and yet had a deceiving spirit and did all forms of wickedness in the name of God, however, if God is the owner of all things, than how can a person steal? this is essentially the fulfilling of the law.
If someone steals something from me, then I am in the spirit of God, required to forgive them, and release them of the ‘theft’ this in turn makes the theft null and void. However, that theft actually was part of a system of lies. If God owns all things, and something was supposedly taken from ‘me’ then i believed the lie that somehow it was MY object and not Gods. interesting isn’t it?
So then we can see where Scriptures say ‘do not worry about what one can do to the body” for if it is true, God made all and Jesus paid the price for all, so even our bodies are temples to God, and they are OWNED by God. So when people abuse us, steal from us, violate us, in someway, they are inturn ‘violating God’ as the scriptures say, ‘what ever you do to the least of these you do unto me”
If even our bodies are Gods, then there cannot in Christ be such a thing as active and living sin for it has become null and void. The lies that satan spreads are what creates these things like ’stealing’ because it is the lie that one has what another does not. But in affect, no one is rich or poor, no one is owning of anything..it is all Gods, the abundance of heaven is everywhere.
In this thought process, a person can then shift into a kingdom mindset where all things needed are provided for, all things are Gods and therefore in Gods ways there is no lack, there is no poverty. Both of which are conditions in the earth because of ‘the fall’ and the false truths that have been spoken to folks.
I like this blog about absolutes more than all the others because I believe it points closer to the direction of fulfilled law instead of demanding law.
What is considered ‘immoral’ or ‘lawlessness’ to me is simply the manifestations of lies. Being that satan is the father of lies, that is why those who do ‘lawlessness’ are of their father the devil. How about those who abuse others, or sexually rape another. They live in the lie that their needs are not being met, they live in a lie that they are trapped, or that another person is responsible for their inward pain. Again, the actions are from the father of lies.
When a person is rightly aligned with Christ, then these lies to do not exist in them, and which is why I don’t necessarily beleive in ‘absolutes.’ However, to those who are pure, all things are pure. So if you need absolutes in your life to know you are in the will of the father, than I think it is a pure thing for you. If those people are indeed connected to the ‘pure, true spirit’ as you term it then they are able to be in any situation and see the pure and be pure.
John Paul you also stated “Simply this, Jesus was the bodily representation or application of the Law among us. When we look at Him we see the Law of God applied.” Scriptures talk about the word becoming flesh and dwelling among us. I heard Kim clement speak a message on the ‘word still becoming flesh in us’ and it was probably one of the best messages I have ever heard from him (though I don’t always enjoy his teachings)
I beleive that it is true, that the living word of God, Christ, in bodily flesh, living amongst us, manifested through us, becomes the living breathing word of God in us. When we allow the words of God to manifest as truth, and let it saturate our soul to bring about spirit changes, then we are walking by the spirit. But the head knowledge turning into the heart knowledge, also goes back to the head knowledge. The final difference is the head knowledge is fueled by a new way of thought.. the divine way…
One of the characteristics I enjoy about people associated with streams is what some would term ‘integrity.’ I believe you all have this purity that far exceeds absolutes, and comes from the spirit, it is this ‘integrity’ that fascinated me about Aaron Evans the first time I saw him and didn’t know who he was. The first time I saw John Paul speak I was impressed with the same thing> It wasn’t so much the revelatory gifts, or the power that I was amazed by, it was the truth manifested in your body-form. It is because of this, that I am thankful that whatever way you have believed, whether its with absolutes or not, that it has allowed you to mold into a very Godly man and a network of beautiful spiritual people. So.. i guess even though i still feel odd about all this, i understand where you are coming from but I feel as though It is not totally what I believe, I see a way of heaven that matches with the true ways of heaven, and regardless of how you get there, I am glad you are there..
bless you
Jealousy is blind so is pride. Satan wanted the lovely gift that God bestowed on us as His bride. To be with Him in a passionate embrace for ever right by His side. I dont think whether or not a view of absolute was the issue.
I’ve been reading some of Dallas Willard’s stuff on discipleship. One of his main thrusts, in explaining Jesus’ comments, is to not focus on keeping the law, i.e., not doing the deed-murder, lust, etc. He says this is “cleaning the outside of the cup.” Rather he says, focus on becoming the kind of person who for them it is natural not to murder, not to lust. Don’t focus on the fulfillment of the law, become someone via the Holy Spirit’s work who naturally fulfills the law. Clean the inside of the cup.
He has likened this elsewhere to a baseball player who is looking to increase from hitting the ball inside the park to hitting home runs. Yes, he could swing harder and harder, but then his timing is messed up, he strikes out more, he gets down on himself. This is akin to trying to keep the law. It doesn’t work! Instead, he should focus on working out with weights, building his muscles, possibly observing those who hit home runs and what they do to make that happen. Through that indirect action, he then will be able to directly be able to do what he wanted to do initially, because he became the kind of person who could do those things.
Willard says spiritual disciplines-solitude, study, prayer, fastingn, etc- is the training we undertake to become the kind of people to where inwardly, we do not murder, lust, etc. As Jesus said, out of the heart comes evil, and Solomon said in Proverbs that life issues from our heart.
Finally, one of Willard’s greatest thrusts is that we do not respect Jesus as the ultimate authority on life in any arena. Sure, maybe spiritually, but do we follow Him there? But not in business, socially, medicine, etc. Willard’s point is that to not see Jesus as the most authoritative, most knowledgeable, the epitome of brilliance (as Tozer says, words do not do Him justice)and so we do not follow Him or so the mindset develops that we (I) do not think He’s interested in helping us do business or how we go about our lives. And in that he says we fail to become His disciples.
I think that this is what you are saying JP(?)
Blessings!
Dennis
I have been concerned for quite some time about the “greasy grace” or “cheap grace” mentality of some born-again people. Their attitude is always, “Well, this is the age of grace,” as if it’s all covered by what Jesus did at the cross so absolutes go out the window. Anyone who has had a legitimate/complete repentance has no desire to sin. Meanwhile, I’m crying out for balance and hoping someone will get the word out before all hell breaks loose.
Manja, manja! I love this feast! Much to chew on here on your blogs! There’s no stoppin now.
Selah & Blessings to You Too!
Shirley C.
P.S.: We are on this journey called Jesus and eternity is our destination……………………………………………
Absolutes are absolutely necessary…and that is an absolute! God is an absolute…it is by HIS laws and absolutes that the Universe, Spiritual realms and physical realms, are held together!
At this point in time, we are living in both the spiritual and physical realms. However, because we are living in the physical realm, we cannot transcend sin/sinning. RIGHT and WRONG still exist today and the consequences, whether earthly or on judgement day remain intact!
We are under grace and Jesus came to fulfill the law, but by no means does this mean that the act of sin no longer exists and becomes “null and void.” Even God himself lives and does not break the laws He set! If God did not live by the laws He created (before time even began), why would He have reason to punish Adam and Eve? Why would Adam and Eve’s sin caused all this trouble for this long? Why would God have to come down as a human being and die? Why not save us another way? Clearly, God has established absolutes and laws that even He abides by…thus, we must abide and uphold these values/absolutes/laws.
One may then argue that what I presented above is before Jesus came and fulfilled the law. Well, lets see what Romans says:
“What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? By no means! Don’t you know that when you offer yourselves to someone to obey him as slaves, you are slaves to the one whom you obey—whether you are slaves to sin, which leads to death, or to obedience, which leads to righteousness?” (Romans 6:15-16)
Christians can still sin! We are not immune and even a light can be darkened. Sin still exists! How?, one may ask…because Satan is still the prince of this world!
God may be the owner of everything…but if I go out and steal or kill someone…I am sinning, and I am not going to plead in court that I am not breaking the law, because I was not taking from anybody because nobody really owns anything anyway.
Living for Christ is living for absolutes, because Christ is the definition of absolute and He is all of the absolutes!
Because Christ’s attributes are absolute and contain laws and the supernatural…etc. I would conclude that if you want to be more like Christ and live more for Christ…learn about his attributes! We study the supernatural (dreams, visions, prophecy, seer gifts…etc), so why not study His other attributes (laws, absolutes, values…etc)!
Greetings with much love in Christ Jesus
I kept hearing as I started to read through this,
“Where the Spirit of the Lord is there is Freedom”
Once we have realized our position through Christ we are free to make Godly choices, not guided alone by our souls, or minds or hearts, thank God, but by our spirits in communion with the Holy Spirit.
Once the “Law” has been emblazened upon our souls we have only one choice, no other will feel confortable or “right” and that is the Godly position in any situation.
Praise God forever that He has chosen us to begin to understand Him through His Holy Spirit.
Blessings,
Brenda
We find that serving God in Spirit and Truth instead of rules that keep our flesh in line, but limit the purity of our heart; brings the true life or “heart of flesh engraved” that He mentions.
The law was given with Spiritual intent. God is Spirit, His absolutes are given to perfect us in Spirit, Soul, and Body.
His law is perfect and brings conversion to the soul. It is built on a sure thing.
Being in love with God and loving others with this same love will do much for our Spiritual life.
I find it easy to love God, but harder to love others. I welcome His help.
Rom 7:6, Rom 7:14, 1Th 5:23, Psa 19:7, Mar 12:30-31
God bless
David
The one thing I love about absolutes, are their God given authority in this earth. They will inevitably come to pass. As we walk, however that may be, when we look back and analyse our harvests in life, we can see a conducting line in it’s centre, and this line can be linked to Gods absolutes. These absolutes can be found in His Word! Actually, these absolutes, are His Word!
For good or for bad, for the better or for the worst, the absolute functioned and release it’s fruit, to whatever side of it’s nature that it was put to function…for good or for bad.
One may do this unconsciously, but it happens even if we aren’t aware of it. Absolutes are so important, they protect us constantly, they put boundaries on evil and I’m glad that absolutes are given to us from a loving father.
I wanted to say a couple more things but they vanished…
Let’s keep seeing into absolutes, I think it will release a power that many don’t even realise…We will see Him in many ways as we do!
God Bless!
Forgive me guys, I think I said a heressy in my last comment
I sometimes have difficulty expressing myself, I take ages to write a comment…I said:
“For good or for bad, for the better or for the worst, the absolute functioned and release it’s fruit, to whatever side of it’s nature that it was put to function…for good or for bad.”
The absolute has only one nature…it yeilds it’s reward according to the form it was put to function (good or bad). The nature of the person who puts it to function, is also a deciding factor because it determines how that person will function (see Proverbs) Absolutes have one nature, but two sides of reward and not two sides in nature…
I hope that settled any confusion that I may have caused…
God Bless!
“For through the law I died to the law so that I might live for God” Galatians 2:19
Here Paul seems to be saying several things. First, his point or frame of reference has changed. Instead of it being focused on the law, his point of reference is to be consumed with God, giving God his full attention. He is no longer living for the law; he is living for God. He has turned his attention from trying to keep the law and instead is looking to love God.
This seems also to jive with what he wrote elsewhere, that the law is a tutor to lead us to Christ. Again, the focus shifts from focusing on the law, to focusing on God.
Further, in Romans 8, Paul makes many awesome points. The law of sin and death brings condemnation, but the law of the Spirit of life sets us free from that. The law was powerless to impart life because it was weakened by the sinful nature (this shows that prior to it’s weakening, it may have actually imparted life-something to think on). Jesus comes, lives perfectly, is condemned, and through our faith in Him, the righteous requirements of the law (again, the law is good, righteous) are fully met because of our faith in Him. His righteousness becomes ours positionally, in that God now accepts us, can have us in His court (how’s that for self-esteem! - nothing to do with you, everything to do with Him).
I’m rambling a bit, but Tozer says that God’s laws, as JP pointed out, are a reflection of Him, who He is. We don’t get to be acceptable by following the law; we are acceptable because of Christ. However, by coordinating our hearts and life with His laws, we come into a fuller, deeper experience of Him, His Spirit, because we are in alignment with who He is, again His laws being a reflection of Him.
If as a human father you love and value my sons, i.e., don’t murder them, steal from them, etc., you gain a greater entrance into my heart. Weak human example, but an example.
Blessings,
Dennis
Hey Joshua,
I think you might have been responding to some of the things I wrote, so hopefully i can clarify. I wasn’t giving a licence for someone to go out and ’steal’ I was merely trying to suggest that maybe we need to see another perspective, particularly when others do things to us.
If Christ told his disciples to take the donkey and tell the man ‘the master’ was requesting it, if someone did the same thing today.. could it possibly be called theft? I was asking questions, more to spur thoughts in action.
Sin, in definition to me, goes back to ‘missing the mark’ I do not beleive in sin in the Christian nature, because if I beleive in Sin, then my faith is in sin. Many christians continue to struggle with ’sinful’ issues and the sinful nature because they focus and visualize everyday a FIGHT against the sin. Because they do this, they are elevating that sin in their mind, allowing it to dominate. If they are seeing in the eyes of faith, always fighting sin and darkness, then they always fight and never win.
If their faith however, sees JESUS CHRIST as Lord who set them free from Sin, if they SEE VICTORY always, if they see in the eyes of faith total freedom and life abundant in the ways of God… they then gravitate and move and breathe in the ways of Spirit, thus sin is null and void. It has been silenced from their thinking and their heart. “as a man thinks, so he is”
ALso, the sciptures tell us “whatever is true, lovely just pure..etcetcetc” when you think about ’sin’ that does not fit into the category of true, just, pure, right, good, holy, whatever…. so christians are their own enemy, because they beleive sin is so strong, that the devil is so strong, and that Christ is a struggle.
That is part of my intention in writing what I did. To understand the works of CHrist, one needs not to see sin in their life, but see the cross.
When a person does this, they will naturally be repulsed by the spirit of the age in things we see all around our culture, but they will also love with an everlasting love those people trapped in the culture.
Its one reason why many times i will have friends watching movies, and I will have to leave.. not because I have created a ‘rule’ about movies, but because the movies are so filled with violence and hatred and all kinds of evils, that I cannot handle watching them. Or times when I goto the mall and the spirit of consumption and greed will be so strong, I will start to shake in the spirit and pray to God to shake off ‘the dust’ of the earth and the darkness of man.. because the spirit rules, and therefore, the darkness must not be allowed to enter my life. This is not a law based faith, I do not have any rules, absolutes, or laws that I follow in my Love for GOD, except for one.. Loving JEsus, loving others.
Love covers over a multitude of sins, and we all know the corinthains concept of love. If we live in this nature, the rest will be so much ‘easier’ to live in. Christ, is the salvation of all who chose it.
I am absolutely burning for Him. I need Him, I can’t stand another moment away from His gaze. He absolutely desires me and I return His continual absolute gaze at me with adoration. I’m afflicted and constrained in this body and in my limitations in beholding His beauty. Therefore I’m absolutely ruined. Help me my lover my Lord! Increase the grace, my ability to behold your Absolute love and majesty. There is no shadow or turning. My Father of Lights, Shine your Light Shine your light Shine your light. This is what absolute is. His light shining forth in the deepest recesses of my heart. Then I’m absolutely changed for I’m absolutely His for ever.
Having been involved with a form of witchcraft for a couple of years and never even seeing it until God opened my eyes to see what was going on. God has shown me in my own life where satan does not like absolutes because they make you see right from wrong. Satan wants us as Christs children as well as unsaved people to not think about absolutes because it brings conviction to our hearts when the Holy Spirit leads and opens our eyes to Christs truth. It is easy to think that the unsaved in Christ are never prompted by the Holy Spirit, God has inherentley put a part of himself in all people, for the bible tells us that he formed us in our mothers womb. At any stage of our life if the Father touches you, you will be impacted. What we do not understand but satan does is the power of generational curses that the bible talks very clearly about. Satan is not a fool, he knows the law better than we as humans could ever understand it.
At the same time I was involved with witch craft I was attending a church that professed Christ but did not walk Jesus Christs example. I realize churchs are filled with fallen and sinful people. I do not mean to sound proud or arrogant for I was very blinded to my own sin. The scary thing is that alot of churches do not want absolutes as well as the government and leaders every where in our society. The longer I attended this church the more my eyes were opened to what was being taught there. I taught the highschool sunday school class and soon found out that the pastor of the church during confirmation had taught the children that they could believe what ever they wanted of the bible or be involve in what ever religion they wanted and they would go to heaven and be with Jesus Christ.
The bible makes it very clear about how we are saved and go to spend eternity with Jesus Christ our Savior. This is not some obscure denomination that I attended. Believers cannot become soft or blinded to right and wrong or become judgemental. Satans goal is to get us to think that we can believe what we feel is right. That leads to cultural or socially exceptable right and wrongs.
I am very thankful for this blog sight. But I feel that many good intentioned Christians are being very deceived.I personally have seen how witchcraft is filtering into Christian churches, you can call it new age or some other name but it will eventually lead you away from Christ if stay involved long enough.
Satan more than anything wants us to be blinded to the biggest truth that Jesus Christ is God. The world is doing its best as well as alot of people in our country to tell us that Jesus is a good man he lived a good life. But if we as His followers do not fully grasp what that means for us, Him being the Son of God, we are lost. The absolute of Christ being God! That is huge, we read our bibles and see who God is in the example of Christ for us.
May God Bless You All.
Dane 4/5/08
Hello John Paul I just finished reading your 4/3and6 o8 blog. It reminded me of some years ago when I told a minister that satan didn’t lie to Eve in verbal terms myyyy did he get upset. I asked him what God said. they have become as one of us.but all he could say was that satan did lie. So I then wanted to know if satan lied to Jesus when he tempted Him. No answer. There are people I know that keep the o/t days because they say it is a command to do so. I always quote John 1v17 if it isn’t revelated by Jesus Christ it has no bearing on them. Hugs to John Paul
I once heard a pastor describe grace…
I thought of this with Michelle’s blog on April 4th..
God’s grace tailor made and precision cut to fit all our needs in whatever circumstance we find ourselves in.
God’s grace, Dynomite exposive power..Dunamous..did I spell that word right? Dunamous…
It speaks of being given the power to be able to stand in the midst of adversity. To know the truth that Jesus said if we knew it would set us free, “You shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free” Isn’t the revelation of truth the work of the Spirit of God? I think for sure it is.
God Bless all you’all!