Feb 12
Spirituality by Human Efforts
If you are reading this blog for the first time or even for the second or third time, you may need to read some of my prior blogs to understand the deeper meaning of what I am writing below. Sometimes the most simple of sayings carry the most profound weight.
Some think you can be spiritually transformed by human efforts. That through intellect or knowing more we can ascend to Holiness, but if that were accurate only the most intelligent could be transformed and spiritual. The poor and weaker of us would be very limited in our relationship to God. The result, if this were true, is that a spiritual caste system would form and only the brilliant would be worthy of being re-procreated or “saved.”
Some think that if you are just passionate enough about becoming spiritual you can achieve deep spirituality, but passion that is self-imposed and used to manipulate an outside source to help them become spiritual will always produce “golden calves,” idols or the deeper darkness of self-flagellation. Scarred lives becomes the aftermath of such thinking.
Some think that by sheer willpower you can mold yourself to become spiritually mature. So they sit on top of poles for years, bury themselves up to their neck in the ground, or make a multitude of vows that last a lifetime. But if willpower could transform or regenerate us then Hitler, Stalin, Hussein, and a myriad of others would be followers of Christ.
True, Pure, Deep Spirituality is far from being self-attainable. Only through the help of the Pure, True, Deep Spirit – God - is this possible. It is through the work of the Messiah that this can happen – not from our own ability, but through His Grace and Mercy. Because, our darkness is covered by His blood, the seed of light can infill us and we become transformed, regenerated, and re-procreated - or as commonly thought - we are born again.
What then can we do? Simply, respond to that which the Spirit of God asks. I’ll write more on this later.
But first, in my next blog, I’ll address some of your questions.
Blessings,
John Paul
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Seek ye first the Kingdom of God, be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind,(get the mind of Christ), That I may know HIM Paul said…we do something and that is seek HIM, we allow HIM to wash us with HIS BLOOD that overcame the world, the flesh & the devil. Christ’s blood the anti-dote for ALL anti God desires, works of the flesh, etc. The Holy Spirt is not a magic wand. HE is the power worker of the trinity. We surrender to the LORDand HIS shed Blood does it, starts to change us if we allow HIM. The more we have fellowship and a loving trusting relationship and die to the flesh relationship with HIM the more we become like HIM. We put on the whole armor of God to fight off the devil, we draw close to God. HE draws close to us. It is the act of our will surrendering to HIS will to transform us unto the image of HIS dear SON. We need to read the WORD of GOD for ourselves and I don’t think it is to hard for any of us to do if we are like little children and totally trust and love HIM, worship HIM for who HE is. The word says , He (meaning Christ, Holy Spirit) which has begun a good work in you will keep on preforming it until the day of HIS coming. He will make us spiritural, body,soul & spirit. HE IS FAITHFUL.
God Bless You dear brother! Thanks for YOUR writings, thoughts and teachings!
This line sums it up well really…
“What then can we do? Simply, respond to that which the Spirit of God asks.”
So if I understand you correctly, a character developed to obey God and a heart cultivated to hear God will take us a long way in living a true, deep & pure spiritual life.
Another great post, I look forward to the answers in your next post.
Z
Wow– I had to really think about this. First of all, this is music to my ears because every day I struggle with understanding, passion, and will power. I had the visual of a pendulum swinging back and forth as I read this. I’m thinking to myself– Am I in control of the swinging, or is God? Am I trying to attain a certain height or am I allowing God to take me back and forth as He pleases. Maybe I move myself back and He brings me forward by His grace and mercy. I don’t know–
Your statement — “passion that is self imposed and used to manipulate an outside source to help them become spiritual will always produces “golden calves,” —This is truly eye opening. I once thought that a passion for spirituality could only be received if it were given by the Holy Spirit because flesh wasn’t capable of attaining such drive and motivation on its own, but I see that passion can be stirred up and attained by underlying motives such as fortune, recognition, or status. That makes sense…
What I take from this so far is that we need to die to self daily. That is the only way to respond to that which the Spirit of God asks.
Am I on track?
So I think I’m one of those guy’s that has tried through all those things(passion, will power, good works). So then it came to the waiting “game”. (not that God is playing a game)
So here I am waiting on Christ, the Holy Spirit and/ or the Father my God in heaven to make me true,pure, and deeply spiritual. Unfortunately the more I wait on the Lord the more I’m not waiting. I feel like everything I do, whether waiting on God or trying to attain it on my own, gives the same resounding silence. I look back at my life and see myself no further along spiritually now then I did when I was 12 going to the 101 in CLC NJ. I still struggle with the same lustful sins I did then. I still fear the enemy when tormented at night. I feel only slightly more disciplined now in life, and no more fit to be a servant of The Living God then Oh I don’t know Stalin? I llok forward to you next post John Paul, cause I hope very much so that it holds some sort of key that will unlock the door that keeps me from seeing that God wants to help save me from my own disgusting despicable soul that lusts and craves evil. A glimpse of Gods victory over me would be nice. I know it’s my fault everything I do thats evil I give room for and I am the one to blame, onlly me.
Thankyou, John Paul, for your post. I am at a point where all the things I have been using to measure my spiritual growth or health have been removed from my life. I have no spiritual yard sticks, or measures and I am left to the “ordinary” things, the very natural and the mundane. And I know it’s God. It is reforming my understanding of what it means to be spiritual. Perhaps a lot of what we do, things that we claim to be spiritual, actually arnt? I guess that’s the difference between spirituality based on DOING (ie DOING something to be spiritual - praying can fit in here) and BEING spiritual - simply through the Holy spirit being in us. We dont have to DO anything to be spiritual. We simply ARE spiritual when the Holy Spirit dwells in us.
Thankyou John Paul for your teaching on our spirituality. For a long time one of my biggest concerns is that when many of us were first filled with the Holy Spirit we had willingly signed up to programmes thinking this was the way forward in church ministry. It was the teaching that John Wimber encouraged us in, we all get to play, come as you are but dont stay as you are, grow in Jesus. Embracing this, growing in spirituality and then being hit by the “Seeker Friendly” presentation of Jesus. Our spiritual growth has been resisted so much by human effort, but no longer I pray.
Pete
John Paul:
Thankyou for clarifying the “they” for us!
Blessings!
Shirley C.
I guess I follow you correctly works do not make you spiritual?
Right ,because if law could have saved us then Why the cross?They had the perfect law. It even says Mary a woman born under the law gave birth to our savior. Her very purpose became her own salvation?So I am interested to hear more.
Joey: Would not have you feel ignored; When God leads you to lay down something (or pick up something) never give up the fight to obey. Many times I knew that I could not live without this or that, wrong!!! All part of being His child I guess? Fight on Joey and pray through.
Robert
John Paul,
As I read this, several verses come to mind:
“After beginning with the Spirit, are you now trying to attain your goal by human effort?” Galatians 3:3
“Does God give you His Spirit and work miracles among you because you observe the law, or because you believed what you heard?” Galatians 3:5
“Since you died with Christ to the basic principles of the world, why, as though you still belonged to it, do you submit to its rules: ‘Do not handle! Do not taste! Do not touch!”? These are all destined to perish with use, because they are based on human commands and teachings. Such regulations indeed have an appearance of wisdom, with their self-imposed worship, their false humility and their harsh treatment of the body, but they lack any value in restraining sensual indulgence.” Colossians 2:20-23.
Paul then goes on in Colossians about what “to do.” I’ve wrestled a lot with a lot of the self-help stuff that’s out there, especially for the business world. I asked a very successful guy once about self-motivation and he said, well, someone’s got to motivate me, it may as well be me. I think that according to Isaiah, there is wisdom in that (”there is no one who stirs themself up to seek You). At the same time, it’s almost like it doesn’t leave room - the self-motivation mindset - for God’s way. It’s almost like it gets in the way of the Spirit.
Many years ago as I was “praying” or doing something for God, (so I thought), I felt the Lord tap me on the shoulder. My response was, “leave me alone, I’m doing something for God.” His response was that He wanted to have relationship with me. I feel I’m back in that rut again, of my own doing. “Who can deliver me from this body of death? Christ Jesus.” Romans 7 - if I will let Him. That’s the hard part, admitting that it cannot be done on my own. I cannot, like the tower of Babel, attempt to reach God. I must admit I, even in my best efforts, can’t reach Him. I must allow Him to reach down to me.
I heard years ago that religion was man’s attempt to reach God and that Christianity was God reaching down to man. Another analogy (by Paul Little) and similar to your’s John Paul was that everyone had to swim from California to Asia. All could not make it, some would get farther than others, but none could make it. Same deal as the intelligent being able to reach God. Makes me see that this world system and what the world honors and esteems is opposite of what God esteems. God have mercy on us!
Blessings John Paul, keep it coming man, we’re thirsty sheep!
Dennis
ohhh john paul, how i just love to hear from your heart. the purity and the character runs deep.
intellect, and desire or passion are all parts of the soul (well i Believe they are), so in that case, unless the spirit is driving it, it is just the sector of response to influence.
What I have come to ‘learn’ is that the wonders of God flow out of us naturally. For years All i would pray is that I loved GOd and I had nothing to offer anyone, i loved to read but I wasn’t good at sports, didn’t have an art background, hadn’t gone to school (But now i am in school cuz God sent me) etc etc. And people would always tell me I was wasting my life away. “oh what a terrible shame it is that someone so talented is doing nothing’ they would say over and over, and yet, I WAS doing something..
i was being, and I was being with the presence of God.
over time, that being with God, and working a day job and then eventually two jobs living and relying on GOd alone for everything turned my life around> I beleive that all true wisdome and understanding is from God, and that the most balanced and truly intellectual people are those who are connected to God.
I have known since in school some of my professors are not very intellegent. Sure by mans standards they are, but their intellect is all pride based and so they can’t have spiritual or even sometimes balanced rational thinking because they have created soul fortresses of pride, self performance, etc etc.
Anywyas, thanks again for your post. i know you will be asnwering questions soon, and that is exciting..
I would love to sit in your house for a few hours and look through your books, i bet you have some fun ones.. thats one thing i love and I have stacks of old books, sometimes I realize that just a few short years ago 50-100 the church had much more understanding and vibrancy on so many issues, its like all of a sudden a cloud came over people..
anyways, love you, bless you,
will
I also wanted to add that in trying to “improve” in the business world, and sales in particular, I’ve read a number of books about how to do that. I’ve only read one to date that is overtly Christian. The others have good ideas in them at points. One of the key ideas (good or not? don’t know) is that by transforming our thinking (a seemingly good idea on the surface), we can change our behavior and do the things that will result in success. One such book talks about reading 10 scrolls, reading each scroll in succession for 30 days. It does transform you thinking to do it (I nearly got through the first scroll & 30 days -oops, looking for a quick fix that didn’t materialize). There’s also a company that produces CD’s & MP-3’s that first go through a relaxation exercise to calm you, then repeats affirmations 3 times in a soothing woman’s voice. It’s based on Suggestopedia (I think) which is supposedly a way to accelerate learning (cognitive only?). These things work on changing mindsets and thought patterns but it’s like something’s missing. As I pondered this, I thought of Romans 12 where it tells us to be transformed (from the inside out) by the renewing of our minds. However, prior to that command, it tells us to present ourselves as living sacrifices, which means (I think) that we open ourselves to God and His Spirit and have a right connection with Him. I think the intimation in this is that presenting yourself as a living sacrifice is necessary in order to have a transformed mind, in that they are connected? Or is this putting “steps” that aren’t there in place, in a Western mindset kind of way?
Blessings,
Dennis
John Paul Wrote:
Some think you can be spiritually transformed by human efforts. That through intellect or knowing more we can ascend to Holiness, but if that were accurate only the most intelligent could be transformed and spiritual. The poor and weaker of us would be very limited in our relationship to God. The result, if this were true, is that a spiritual caste system would form and only the brilliant would be worthy of being re-procreated or “saved.”
I believe that we need both a relationship with God through Jesus and the Holy Spirit and the knowledge of God because as in any bridle relationship the more that we are in love with the object of our passions, the more that we want to know the characteristics of the one that we love and His ways. This is what makes us true lover’s of God. This is what we should be living for….ways to love the Lord that leads to knowing His ways and knowing His will for our lives. Thanks Lord for Loving us! I Love You Lord!
Your Servant,
Shirley C.
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Thank you, sir…
Thank you John Paul for teaching us the “what” and the “what nots”, the “how” and the “how nots”…
That helps to walk a straighter…
God Bless!
I found it interesting that you used the term “Spiritual Caste System” because I recently left church because that is what I see in most churches, particularly those that move in the gifts of the Spirit. This caste system that puts people in order of importance. It is something that I deal with every day in the corporate world and I found it unbearable to then have it in the setting of meeting with the body of Christ. I do still go to a small bible study every week to fellowship with the saints, and other small group meetings regularly, but I am a worshipper and desperately miss the corporate worship. I also think that I need some spiritual covering that I just don’t have right now. But the thought of going back to church turns my stomach. I also wonder if this is a cleansing in me - to reveal and kill a carnal competitive nature and that is why it bothers me so much?
So I wonder, in this type of church structure, where the Caste system is so obvious, how would it be possible to allow the Holy Spirit to transform us from one level of glory to another if someone else’s level of glory is always being stuck in your face. Is that really what that means? I always thought that scripture meant that I have my levels of glory to move through, and other people have levels of glory to move through, but they are definately not the same levels as we each are unique and individual. Also since scripture says not to compare ourselves among ourselves - otherwise we become foolish, this would mean that we have no business looking at what level of glory someone else may be at. Am I wrong on this?
Gee I rambled, I hope this was not too far off subject.
I have to say that I love your blogs - they are very refreshing.
Peace to you.
“or the deeper darkness of self-flagellation . . .” good one, Mr. John! Oh, sweet grace! In those moments when I’m expecting the worst, and hear His voice of love . . . it’s why I love Him. Truly, His gentleness makes us great.
Dear Friends:
I was a teacher for twenty years. One of my assignments was at a school in a fairly rough area in Canada. During that time, I saw many wonderful things happen with the children. I used to watch for what God was doing. I believe that watching for what God is doing is an important key to letting go of self-defeating striving.
In one memorable interaction with my little charges, I was able to incorporate dance into a lesson, using a song by an artist recommended by JPJ. The song had to do with great hope in the face of darkness. I reminded my students that, just when things seem to be at there worst, it’s important to simply WAIT, because the story isn’t over. At the time we were studying The Chronicles of Narnia: I had the freedom to use illustrations related to “Aslan” who, I explained, is “something like The Lion of Judah”.
The artist sang about the darkness receding and “billows of light” coming her way, she asked, “Could this be the Hope that now I am beholding?”. At that point in the song, I gently turned in the long, billowy white dress that I was wearing. One of my students leaned foward excitedly and told me, “I dreamed about this! I saw this in my dream last night!”
Little did I know (but God did) that another girl in the room was being severely abused by her father. In the pre-dawn hours of the next morning, with his children in the back of a van and arguing with his wife, he bolted out onto the highway and was killed by a car.
Just prior to this traumatic event, because of a Creative Idea that came to me, this precious child was given a hope-filled experience that would help to take her through the days ahead.
Later, her mother came to see me and thank me for what I had given to her daughter. Yet it was God Who made it happen.
In this I was reminded that striving is pointless: how can we possibly know what God is doing (unless He chooses to reveal a part of it to you)? Better to wait on Him so you can truly follow His leading with each and every precious human being with whom he causes you to cross paths.
Since you are answering questions, I also wanted to throw out there the wonderment of the indigo children. Did you see the movie ‘indigo’ starring neale Donald walsh? I am not worried whether you talk about it either way, but i thought it would tie in nicely to your discussion of soul, spirit, connected to source etc.
It seems on my reading up of the indigo children that they are gifted and talented by God, but many new agers have really helped the kids get into some hefty stuff.
Some of the stories are amazing, JEsus walking and talking to the other kids, while otheres where children talk about ‘past lives’ and stuff sounds to me like the familiar spirits are re-generating things. One kid told stories about being an emperor in a past life, and then in absolute detail described events, later researched by adults to be found true, but that to me sounds like the demon who resided in the emporer was roaming in ‘arrid places’ looking for a host, and found the child and was speaking through them.
My saying this, I also want to make it clear that I do beleive that God raises people from the dead, I prophecied over a woman in a restuarant a few years ago that the child she was having trouble with was actually the baby she had told me she had miscarried and that God rose the baby from the dead and placed him back in her womb and that not to fear that the devil tried to take the baby out the first time but God was going to protect him even now.” of course it was quite a scary thing to step out and say such a thing, and the woman began to shake and convulse like nobodies business, and then i calmly said ‘yes you can let go of the guilt now’ and she just wept. later God told me that he wanted ‘to do it again’ and said that he was looking for a generation who wouldn’t protest abortion, but would instead raise babies from the dead and put the love of heaven where they currently have their mouths. oi. intense. so all of this I think is interconnected, and I apologize if it seems misjointed..but it is indeed connected.
I beleivce that these kids are so open to the spirit realm but unless connected to source they are getting sideswiped by all kinds of familiar spirits and creatures that come as ‘forms of godliness’
Don’t get me wrong, i love the kids, and after watching the movie ‘indigo’ i felt like ‘finally someone understands’ it really felt like home. It also reminds me of some of the things you talk about on your cd set ‘my journey so far’ I have had wonderful conversations with some children in the spirit, even today i was sitting in a restuarant and this little girl and I were laughing, tables apart, and when I went to leave the restuarant she had started crying and got upset. It all started when I sat there with the Lord and decided to pick a family to pray their destiny out over them, as I sat there and begin to pray in the spirit dimension for this girl and her mother, she immediately picked up on it and began to joyously laugh.
so, if you have the time, and it relates, what are your thoughts on the indigo kids?
(if you have already talked about this on a fireside chat or something, then there is no need to repeat yourself, if someone from streams could email me the title and date of such a discussion i would love to order it.) thanks. blessings!
It seems the more I learn the less I know.
Will…who are you? I am wondering how old you are. I have a sister who is 19 and she blows my mind too. I am 33 and feel called to be a mother to this high school/post high group b/c they think so differently from most of the body. I am just wonderting if you fall in that bracket and also how you came to know the Lord.
Hi, I just recently discovered your blog site. I just want to say thanks for your continued honesty and commitment to spiritual growth. You have helped me to keep my feet on the ground, and to be more honest with myself. As time goes by, I see more and more the limitations of my own abilities, and my great need to let go and let God! He has wonderful things in THE STOREHOUSE OF TREASURES for all those who put their trust in Him!
God Bless you!
There are truly GREAT people on this blog! What a blessing to share in your experiences!
Thanks John Paul for the forum!
Needing Him desperately every moment, I say!
Blessings.
hello nina:
so that I can answer your question, i don’t actually beleive in time existing as we know it, and so age to me is such a strange thing. But in compliance with conversation, i would by mans time table be 27 years old this year. if you want to see pictures just click on my name at any of the responses, and it should take you to my blog page, you can then see the face behind my comments. haha.
seriously though, the Bible says there will come a generation that does not die, and I beleive it is the generation that brings total restoration and faith to what Christ intended when he came as the second adam. death disease, degeneration, destruction are all part of the fall in the beginning, they are not part of the tree of life. therefore I beleive an entire generation will understand the FULL gospel and they will be walking and living eternally, not just in heaven, but also living longevity wise in the earth. the kingdom of heaven in the earth, if we can live in both now, why should we have to die from one? just some thoughts.
As for my conversion story or thoughts on how I met Jesus, space and time would not alot for me to share that here on this blog, but if you are interested, feel free to contact me through my blog page and i can share briefly with you some of my God-history. I don’t think others would want to see a long drawn out display here. hhaha. (its not really the topic at hand)
but thanks for the inquiry..many blessings.
When someone questioned how spirituality is measured, I thought of a teaching I heard from an apostolic ministry. He taught that operating in your gifting is not a true measure of spirituality because you can operate in your gifts and still be deceived in another area of your life. I know this is so true……..look at how many pastors can be using their gifts and simultaneously commit adultery on the side. Or in some cases, be dishonest with the church’s finances or whatever. It’s more than compartmentalizing….I believe they are deceived and they think they are OK because they are using their gifts. Now that’s something to ponder…………
Michelle,
A gift can outrun fruit.
Solomon never lost his gift of wisdom. God’s gifts are without repentance.
God bless
I share David’s view …”The more I learn the less I know”
I love to study the Word and live this life in God. I am passionate alright but it doesn’t seem to come from me at all. In fact, the passion I feel for God surprises even me. I am reminded of several things as I read this post. JP, we toured Israel with you almost 2 years ago. As I was preparing for that trip, I had so many things I wanted to ask you because I knew there would be opportunity for conversation while we were there. I found that once we arrived in the land, I didn’t want to do anything except “listen” and “be”. I realized for me to spend time talking at all seemed to be a monumental waste of time. I wanted to hear what God placed on your heart to say so I could just LEARN! So many amazing things happened to me during those days. I actually “saw” radiant beams of light come from your eyes and flood into mine across a dinner table one night when we were in Jerusalem. Obviously I wasn’t expecting that! Certainly, I wasn’t striving for that becuase I didn’t know such a thing was even possible! My husband told me his own experience when we returned to our hotel room later that night. Another person commented on the same thing the following day. We received an impartation through your eyes during a dinner conversation rather than in a prayer line. Not human effort. It was a very real experience…TRUE Spirit to Spirit communication that our natural eyes were allowed to observe. (strange I know, but true). I acknowledge that experience as the work of our supernatural God. On more than one occasion when I’ve been troubled about something and needed some help understanding it, God has sent you in my dreams. He will come speak to me through you and we actually discuss whatever it is via the dream. Amazing, isn’t it? JP, I’m curious…are you always aware when such things are occuring through you or are you just “being” in God? Does your natural mind know when these things are happening in the Spirit? Hmmm…
The more we just “be” the more He just “is” in our lives. Not simple at all…but oh, so simple.
I completely agree that TRUE Spirituality is not self-attainable. Thank you for penning these beauiful words to help many of us bring order to some of our chaotic thoughts.
Wow! How simply profound and beautifully stated! May we all simply respond as God asks. Thanks for all of the insight, revelation, and wisdom you share.
Blessings,
Kim
How important is it to understand what spiritual stage of development you are currently in? Especially, if some stages might need to be repeated? I am wondering if it really helps because I don’t want to say, “Well, it looks like I might just be crawling out of stage (?)… so I’ll do this and this and this to make sure I progress a bit faster!” However, I am currious because its on my worst days that I feel that somehow the Holy One who made me is watching me and He is smiling, but the idea that I’m doing well or progressing spiritually seems almost insanic, if that’s a word.