Feb 25
Q & A The War and the Spirit
I enjoy your stuff, though the one thing that I have trouble swallowing is this statement: “Regardless of our religious conviction, our spirit, soul, and body war against each other.”
- In the beginning, God who is Spirit walked with man every day. I believe we can safely believe God also talked to them, taught them, and loved them during this time. Man had an “everlasting” body, and as long as he ate of the Tree of Life or of the Spirit he would live forever. So the spirit of man followed the One, True, Spirit, - God.
- Just prior to the Fall, Satan tempted Chavvah (Woman) by using the Tree of Knowledge (of Good and Evil). This tree is the Tree of the Soul. Soul is comprised of the Mind, will, and emotions. Knowledge is found in the Mind and that is where the battle begins. That is why we are commanded to love the One, True, Spirit, - God with all our Mind or thought processes.
- This depicts the battle/war or temptations that still rage within ourselves. Satan desires for us to serve the Soul, and God desires for us to serve the Spirit. Satan, himself fell through pride, or thinking and he wants us to have the same end as he will have. In other words, Satan wants to take as many with him as he can through getting them to embrace the same error.
- Our physical body is caught in the middle. The body is to serve and carry out the desires of either the soul or the spirit - depending on which one rules us. So it is tossed both ways as we fight or give into temptation. This is what the Apostle Paul was talking about when he described times when he did what he knew he should not do, and did not do that which he knew to do.
- So it makes little difference whether we are Baptist, Assembly of God, Vineyard, Lutheran, etc. We all will go through the battle(s), to overcome and reach the future that God created us to have.
- Those who do not follow the One, True, Pure, Spirit – God still fight this but in different proportions. The soul or god of this world rather than the spirit is leading them. Their battle is against the “wooing” or love of the Holy Spirit of the living God. His love is an incredible attractant and His Spirit is brilliant in how He loves those who do not yet know Him. But man still tries to love darkness rather than light.
Even Jesus battled His soul. As His crucifixion drew near, He said his soul troubled Him and wanted Him to stop the crucifixion process that was about to transpire. So we find it has been this way from the very beginning, and is still rages within us today. Even after we have walked with God a long time, Satan does not give up.
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So many people who haven’t received Christ as their savior are on a mission to seek the truth. How can they end up so far from the truth. Why does the Lord allow them to end up so far off the course in their seeking?
To fully answer this would take a book, but if you will allow me, I’ll give an over simplistic answer that will cover 90% of the problems.
- Cause #1: Bitterness is an acidic pill to swallow. We become bitter when we feel justified in light of the pain someone causes us. God asks us to forgive those individuals as He has forgiven us. So many feel justified in not forgiving and do not want to follow a belief system that requires them to forgive. To the degree we forgive - we are forgiven. The Bible tells us our prayers are hindered because of unforgiveness.
- Cause #2: Ambition causes us to want all things for our benefit rather than for the benefit of others. And certainly not for the Glory of God. Ambition is a form of selfishness and pride. If God will not give us what we want, then we will find what we want through our other sources.
- Cause #3: Cultural indoctrination is very hard to overcome. Many are taught errant thinking about God from their childhood. Many of those continue to look for Him in “all the wrong places.” For example, if one has been taught that God is all things (pantheism) then it is difficult to convince someone that God made all things, but all things are not God. In essence they do not know where to look for the fulfillment they desperately need.
- Cause #4: Doctrinal programming is also hard to over come, especially when it teaches that if you join the church you are spiritual and “saved.” This line of thinking causes disappointment when a deep relationship with God is not formed with “brick and mortar or a denomination.” My experience is that the majority of those in the New Age are there because they found “brick and mortar or a denomination” less than fulfilling. They were never taught that there is a personal, and intimate relationship that can be found in God, not in an object or belief system. It is no surprise then that they feel closer to trees and fowl than to the church that they were taught is God.
- Cause #5: Ecstatic needs, or the overt dependency on supernatural experiences, as a sign of true spirituality is a driving force. From the previous sentence you can surmise that I believe that this need to experience the “other world” can be over done. Add to that the reality that the church as a whole is steeped in the philosophy of naturalism and relativism – thus driving those with a belief that spiritual experiences are real and for today elsewhere. Therefore they look for spiritual answers wherever they can be found and soon you have a perfect script for deception. The church or Body of Christ should be the first place one looks to know True Spirituality and the deeper things of God.
Regardless of errant thinking or errant searching, a great truth is this, “If one is really seeking for the One, True, Spirit, - God – He will be found.” God will not give up on them if they do not give up on finding Him – and they will find He has been near them and waiting all the time.
Blessings,
John Paul
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Quote… “It is no surprise then that they feel closer to trees and fowl than to the church that they were taught is God. ”
Trees and fowl have more observable life than brick and mortar.
Often brick and mortar are what searchers are finding. Something cold, hard, and dead instead of something…
Flowing in the wind of the Holy Spirit (leaves)
Receiving life through His Light (photosynthesis)
Drinking from His Spirit (Rain)
Soaking in His Presence and drawing nourishment from that
relationship (Roots - anchored, drinking deep water, absorbing minerals)
Reproducing the fruit He creates in us (Seeds)
Singing with the Joy of God (Birds Chirping)
And loving Him (Father, Son, Holy Spirit) who gives all life.
No wonder people find more in common with trees and birds than brick and mortar. :o)
I think He just helped me see trees in a different understanding.
God bless
David
Your answer to the second question was amazing, concise & profound.
Bitterness, ambition, cultural indoctrination, doctrinal programming and ecstatic needs. Wow, good stuff, real good stuff.
You’re right, there is a book in there. So, when will it be published?
Z
ok. so I am still having a hard time with this concept of war. Don’t get me wrong I am willing to see a new perspective on things if I need to, and I know that God will show me anything I need to know because I am always pursuing in love his truth.
When you said :
“In the beginning, God who is Spirit walked with man every day. I believe we can safely believe God also talked to them, taught them, and loved them during this time. Man had an “everlasting” body, and as long as he ate of the Tree of Life or of the Spirit he would live forever. So the spirit of man followed the One, True, Spirit, - God. ”
I Couldn’t agree more. In fact, I beleive today in the spirit, we also walk with God, talk with God, and he teaches us and loves us and spends time with us. As we partake of his body, and his blood everyday (and not bread and wine..but I am referring to his literal essence) I beleive we do not have to die. The fall of man brought diseases, sickness, decay, destruction, etc etc. If we beleive that God heals people in the new covenant because it eliminates the old law and the de-generation that came from the fall, then can’t we beleive that we won’t die? I beleive when the Bible says there will come a generation that shall not die, that it is not a generation that will be ‘raptured’ but that it is a generation so in love with Jesus breathing in and out of heaven so much that they simply shift in and out of heaven and in and out of earth simultaniously all the time, and so they are connected to source and never shall die. Never, ever, ever.
Sure the Bible says that it is appointed everyone once to live and once to die, but technically when we are born again in Christ, our old nature died, and so therefore, isn’t possible for this old nature dying to be considered the death that a man experiences once? I do beleive that living forever now is totally possible.
Some time ago the Lord asked me if I was willing to beleive what he was speaking to me even if I wasn’t ever going to see it, but that I would have faith and beleive and speak that which he told me even if I wasn’t going to live it out, as many of the old testament prophets had done. I paused for sometime before answering, and with tears streaming down My cheeks I acknowledged that I would beleive and say what I heard him even if I never saw it with my own eyes, but that if it is possible that I would love to see with my own eyes the things that I was to speak. It still grinds inside me, the longing to see more than any generation has ever seen!
You have written: “This depicts the battle/war or temptations that still rage within ourselves. Satan desires for us to serve the Soul, and God desires for us to serve the Spirit. Satan, himself fell through pride, or thinking and he wants us to have the same end as he will have. In other words, Satan wants to take as many with him as he can through getting them to embrace the same error. ”
I do agree on the difference of soul spirit body etc etc. I totally do, in fact, that is one thing that wigs me out in some of the ‘revival’ type meetings i have been too because I have seen a whole lot of manipulation and soul force used in guise of spirit activity. It gives me the creeps to see some of the stuff that is going on as if it is from God but is essentially darkened sources. But I beleive that Satan can beleive and desire whatever he wants for me, but that doesn’t mean diddly squat. I love God and I know the spirit resides in me, that spirit is my ‘armour’ and that spirit of God keeps my soul from failing. Many times people hurt me, they spiritually send their psychic daggers and dark spells, but if I acknowledged my soul over spirit I would be done for! The soul may feel these things happening, but it is the spirit in me, the spirit of Christ, which is the great mystery, that actually propels my spirit and then my soul into crying ‘mercy’ not justice. it is the spirit that catapults me into forgiveness and actual prayer for that person. I love walking down the street and calling in the spirit to everyone i walk past “you are forgiven!!” because Christ said that which we bind or loose on earth shall be done in heaven, and I have found that there is a sudden interest in God to people who haven’t even been spoken to when we silently in spirit declare to them YOU ARE FORGIVEN! One woman grabbed me one time on the sidewalk in a major city, she grabbed my arm tightly (scared me thought I was gonna be mugged, but the spirit gave me total peace and no reaction) and as she grabbed me she said “tell me about your God!”
this came because she was feeling the light, and she sensed the silent spoken ‘forgiven’
As for the war between heaven and hell and us in the middle. I totally understand and agree. I have felt myself suspended many times in space with angels pulling me one way and demons pulling the other, and it has been brought to experience many times, and I usually know that my life will suddenly change for the better when this happens, spiritually speaking, as it usually happens right before major revelations come. I can feel the war over the souls of man everytime this happens, and I declare avidly that I want to walk in the ways of the light!
I agree with your postings, But I also beleive that at some point the war is over, and we are no longer battling our soulish realm. For example, as I am in college right now, and a ’secular’ one at that (if there is a seperation of secular and sacred..that I am not sure) but one of my professors is constantly sending very dark things by psychic soulish powers towards me. SHe hates me and makes it plain. She has made me throw out entire pieces of work and told me to start over. Sure its possible that my work might not be up to par with others, but in this instance, it isn’t that situation. My soul is angry many times with her, furious and feeling violated and ‘beaten up’ but immediately when the soul is flaring I can hear the spirit saying “forgiven! mercY! Grace!” and so i align myself with the forgiven aspect deep in my spirit, even though my soul wants to smack her! But I don’t beleive this is a war, because since Christ dwells in me the war is actually over, I don’t have to fight the anger and hatred, the spirit does it for me. I didn’t have to decide to forive her, i already surrendered to Christ in salvation and Christ in me forgave her for her actions and therefore he, being my head, sent the message and my being fell into total alignment.
So I guess when I said that I was having trouble understanding that whole gamut, its not that I dont’ understand it, because I used to beleive in so much warfare all the time! But the more religion I allowed God to eliminate in my life, the more of the ‘yoke’ and ‘burden’ became easy and light. The christ-love life has taken all new meaning and it it this joyous flow of mercy everyday. I don’t have to do anything, but the original submission to his love and his ways, everything else is more than a cake walk, its a heavenly journey.
That is not to say hard times and troubling and difficulties arise, as with anyone born of the spirit, we are led as sheep among wolves and the worldly elemental spirits hate us because we coemt to nullify good and evil and to allow Christ to manifest in us and release more of heaven, the totality of ‘the tree of life’ in the earth.
With all of these sayings, my suggestion is maybe we are far closer to ‘perfection’ in Christ than we have been able to beleive over the years.
And I would daringly say that all that in the Bible is wonderful, but it was only the genesis or the begining. I beleive our daily walk in Christ is supposed to go above and beyond even the biblical condition of the church (but never contradicting scripture of course) Thats Why I beleive the holy spirit was sent to us, to lead us into more and more truth and light and freedom that at times the people in the earth were not ready for, just like Jesus said that he had more to tell the disciples but they weren’t ready…Paul wrestled with all those struggles between grace and law, i beleive because the books he wrote were the workings out of his faith, that he was slowly being stripped of his religious teaching and training which is precisely why he did the things he didn’t want to do and sometimes didn’t the things he did, because he hadn’t totally eliminated a works and law mentality by total grace. Over time I beleive he got it, but so many people get stuck on where Paul was. To me that is just a stepping stone, a mere condition he was in at the time, like david commiting adultry or other situations in the BIble. I don’t beleive because Paul struggled over those things that we have to beleive in ourselves struggling over those same things.
but by writing this, let me also conclude by saying that I am not trying to argue a point or contest what you are writing, in fact, I am merely trying to lift up other possibilities. I don’t fear sharing these because I know that ultimate truth and light is what stands the test of time and the spirit and that anything that is not spirit will simmply drop out. If I am missing something, I don’t beleive that it will be a problem as God will surely redirect me and guide my heart back onto the path. I have complete trust that he only has good for me, that he will always be the good shepherd and we will always be able to lounge together by the streams of living water.
bless you
Hey Will, I loved your comment and I understand what you said…I like your aproach to a couple things, and having also understood what JP said I’d like to just say a thing or two…
I beleive that it all comes down to proportion…imagine if your teacher wanted to literally crucify you instead of just throwing your work away…do you think that the smack would turn into wanting to wring the “poor” womans neck (because after all she may be a puppet on a tyrants string)…imagine the battle that would be, imagine what that would feel like! What it would do to you…
I’m sure you understand that…I also understand that the battle doesn’t have to be what it has been like…more war than peace. Jesus didn’t have war all the time, but just that one time, that thing knocked at His door so hard, that He even sweated blood…but He did overcome! That’s the beauty of it! A couple days later, the stage for eternity was set for all mankind, for those who would beleive in Him! Wonderful!
God Bless
Re: I agree with your postings, But I also beleive that at some point the war is over, and we are no longer battling our soulish realm.
That comment scares me! I believed that once, too. I’ll spare you the details of that little detour into the darkness of self-sufficiency– because that’s what it was. Yes, the war IS over at some point– specifically, when we leave this earth. Many have confused a lull in the battle with its end, only to find themselves pulling arrows from their backs.
Friend T.
yowsa. So I really appreciate everyones comments on this blog, it is such a wonderful encouragement! Ok, so let me give a brief background to what and why I am saying what I am saying, I totally totally understand where everyone is coming from, and I am not saying that to be diplomatic or butt-kissing. LOL
Through out My life i have had many people give me the negative end of the stick, not because of me, but because of the truth I stood for. I worked with a friend of mine to re-instate a bible study in a school system where athiests were refusing to let us have one. I stood on my ‘rights’ and used the freedoms we have in this nation to say, tough, to those that didn’t want us to meet on campus and share our thoughts. That was years ago in jr high. Then in high school i had times where I was bullied, shoved against walls etc.. not because they didn’t like me per say but because I was a ‘jesus freak’ to them, i wasnt’ a christian or what not in their eyes because many of them were catholic, mennonite or whatever etc, but many of the people in school thought i was tooo spiritual, it just wasn’t healthy. When renewal hit in the 90s, if affected my high school, I was going to school completely ‘wasted’ in the spirit, one day i walked down the hallways bent over unable to stand straight, I shook and fell out of my desk all day, and freaked out the ‘professional’ drugheads of the school at the time. They thought my ‘trip’ was the worst case they ever seen, and some of them were willing to talk to me about Jesus after that. I grew up in a church that didnt’ even beleive in the gifts of the spirit or miracles, so you can imagine my shock (and inner delight) when God started manifesting in unusual ways. it was so good, but even better was the knowing that he was always with me everywhere, for ever.
The impact to this day is still there, and I hear from people from years ago who mention how different things that happened, though scary to them, impacted them in a very good way. Teachers were so scared they didn’t touch it either. What can you do in a public school when the presence of God shows up? Kids got saved.. one in particular straight out of witchcraft, hardcore!
In College (went to a Bible college known internationally) i got in trouble with scholars, theologians and pretty much everyone in the bible college because when I would hold prayer meetings things would start happening. People would experience all kinds of phenomenon. One meeting a girl had demons pick her off the ground and fly her body backwards to the ground, and the description of what ensued afterwards would sound very similar to that of african missions stories from fifty years ago. It was intense. I was scared, but i know that God was there, and he was doing a work in the people, i was just the little guy loving Jesus and going by what he said and not what i knew. The school however claimed I was a warlock. I prophecied to a little bible study of people on campus, prayed for some of them, crazy manifestations happened. People shook, fell to the floor, screamed, etc etc. At one point the bible study (i found out later were charismatics and pentacostal who were not accomstumed to this) discarded me as a false prophet because the things that were happening were unsuual and they had a prophecy before I came that a wolf was coming. My time at the college was over after one year because they pretty much were going to give me the boot, either I was leaving on my own choice, or they were going to make me leave. Later those people in the bible study would contact me and weep telling me how repentant they were for judging me and thinking I was a wolf, and that they found the true wolf because shortly after they wanted nothing to do with me, the true wolf manifested and destroyed and broke up their meetings, causing trouble for them in various ways. They said that they missed an hour of appointed blessing because it came in a way they didn’t understand.
I am not saying that this validates or makes me a big shot. Far from it. I am a nobody, and I don’t desire to be a big star. I simply love Jesus. It is my love for JEsus that brings the desire to see his ways in the earth, and sometimes that means the displacing of darkness, of fighting a very real war. a war that is indeed true.
I am not going to say that I am not strange. I am, though i think I am normal, I hear all the time how unusual and strange I am, and the manifestations of God to boot.. but what does a man do? I just love Jesus and out of my relationship and spending time all through out the day everyday with him, the residue of his goodness flows out and things happen…things happens with ALL people who beleive in Christ. Tottally happens. it really happens but the manifestations of his presence are different on different people..
this is what I am talking about when i say that I beleive the war with our soul can be over. Sure Jesus might have dealt with the power of soul in his ministry. I would not deny that at all. I guess i am saying that maybe in the terms better understood, that “Christ dealt with it so we wouldn’t have to”
i am totally willing to learn something I don’t know and I openly say to all here and God that if I am missing it, may the holy spirit show me. One of the things I do in the morning and sometimes at night is I declare over my being
“soul, you are perfectly aligned with the ways of God, you may not act in your own ways, only the ways of heaven, i take full self control and say that my entire being is in the perfect place of God and that I beleive and receive totally what God has for me today. I am surrendered to him, my life is not my own, and I am not of this world, I am of the ways of God.”
or something along those lines. Its not a mantra or anything but i try to start and end my day on aligning myself to the living Christ everyday. I found that once I started to declare and beleive that, i started seeing new ways, and to me the war was over. I no longer had to fight in flesh or soul to overcome temptations.. i simply had to say Yes to Jesus and the temptations would be overcome because of the work he did not only while he hung on the cross dying, but through the work he did by raising from the dead. the power of his life force in us can totally transform us.
I guess the reason i don’t totally get the whole war things is that I have seen both ends of the pendulum swing, from christians who have no discernment and are soulish in everything right down to the soul power for miracles (of which i highly recommend two books by watchman nee.. “spiritual reality or obsession’ and ‘the latent power of the soul’-jp recomments this one too i think i heard on a cd once) and then the other camp who worries so much about not doing things in the soul that they never do anything at all..
I dont’ beleive that john Paul or streams are in either one of these categories. I am always impressed when I see someone from streams speak. I think there is good fruit here, but I guess I am simply not seeing the soul as a dangerous thing.
if the soul is indeed crucified and raised from the dead with the rest of our body when we are born again, if the soul is saved just as much as our spirit when we accept the ravishing Love of God to us through Christ, then why do we need to battle with it?
I just think the soul is my radio or television, and when it tunes into the wrong station i just change the channel. no war, no battle, just click click.. ‘broadcasting Jesus…”
I guess i am writing all this to verify that I have indeed experienced some physical things in angst against what I beleived, and so I see the hostility of religion to the true childen of God, just like Jesus told the pharisees that their history still killed the prophets..
i mean, if you can beleive it, I even have had stones thrown at me when I was on cellar steps in elementary school, where people blocked me from getting out of the stairwell and threw stones at me. I don’t say this to have a pity party because I am SURE that people connected to streams get all kinds of junk thrown at them being that they are lovers of God and seek truth, so this is not a poor me story. I am very thankful for the love of God, but I also know that when I surrendered and accepted Jesus it was for the long haul. And God has brought me amazing friends who i value dearly.. one of whom was ‘locked up in a mental ward’ by the revival circuit because they thought he was crazy. The reasoning? WHen they were rebuking people for all these sins in public, he stood up and said that though they were correct in their statements but they weren’t telling the total truth, and he proceeded to expose their hidden sins to the very people they had been ridiculing moments before… so their hypocrisy was laid bare. And yet when I talk to this beloved friend of mine, and lover of God, he is one of the most compassionate and loving people i have ever met, but in that moment he stood in the ’shrwed as a serpent but innocent as doves’ position. rather than admitting their fault they framed him as a lunatic, only years later for the truth to come out on many of those people and their hidden life.
so the cycle of life continues..
Thank you all, john paul, terri, antonio, nina, and so many others on this blog, this is such a wonderful place of interaction and spiritual dialogue, I truly beleive it is a wonderful family and network of beleivers…
Just to add some additional thought(s) on soul versus spirit: it seems like Jesus in the gospel and the Holy Spirit on the whole, in writing Scripture, were continually addressing this issue of soul versus spirit. For instance, in reference to evangelism (although I know this passage when strictly interpreted may to some not relate to evangelism - yet again, it is a witness to those who would hear): “do not worry about what to say when you are brought before rulers; you will be given words to say, and those words will be from my Father (loosely paraphrased).” Here Jesus is almost giving paradigm for evangelism. Instead of learning specific verses and seeking to guide others down a road, He is saying rely on the Holy Spirit. While knowing the verses is key and are necessary in laying out a Biblical framework, it cannot take the place of Spirit-initiated words to a particular person. In James, he talks about doubt which I believe is a sibling to doubt; I’ve heard a pastor friend of mine say that literally that words means to divide the mind, hence, double-mindedness. The point? This issue is addressing the mind. In both cases, the Holy Spirit through the Word appears to be pointing us to reliance on Him as opposed to our own resources, i.e., our soul. There are countless other verses: “we have this treasure in earthen vessels to show that the all-surpassing power comes from God, and not from us;” “it is by grace you have been saved, and this not of yourself, it is the gift of God.”
Further, and I’m rambling a bit (due to fatigue), Steven Covey points out at the end of his book, “The Seven Habits,” what life looks like with various elements at the center of a person’s life. Very telling is his view of what a person’s life looks like when it is centered around the church; what results is pharisaism, because the issues are all soul related. Believe the same exact way (strongholds, or group think); outward conformity (we all wear the same clothes, etc.); attendance at meetings is the key, and commitment to attend meetings is key. Not that these do not have a place in some sense, but only with the proper focus and these things being an outgrowth rather than a first cause.
Blessings,
Dennis
Sorry, doubt is a sibling to worry. And both have to do with the mind, which is part of the soul.
“And I would daringly say that all that in the Bible is wonderful, but it was only the genesis or the begining.”
I was considering this tonight. That the Bible is like an quantum physicist talking to two year olds. It is all True, but much is missed or misunderstood.
Something inside of me is very agitated as I read some of the recent blogs. When I’m agitated, I write and my fingers flow.
There has been and probably always will be many words, many books, many endless hours of debate over who is right about this or that. There will always be ‘resumes’ used as proof as to who is right and to who is wrong. There will always be ‘wars’ over who has the right truth.
However, I don’t think there should be a war over the love of God. No one can really argue about the message that God loves everyone no matter what they go through. I think people need to be reminded that God loves them in their situation no matter what. Why? I think they need to be reminded of God’s love because they war inside of themselves to maintain the belief that God still loves them even in their depths. I don’t know that we could ever stop reinforcing the love of God to people.
Maybe this is just me but I war almost every day to think that God loves me right here in what I go through. Dare I share with you one of these wars? I’ve been holding off.
One of my wars is to believe God loves me and my child. How does He feel about me or towards me when the baby across the room smiles and giggles at me while I clutch my own child who cannot smile or laugh. What is in His heart as my heart struggles to smile at the other baby…the other parent? What is He saying to me when people joyfully retell their marvelous healing of 10 years of back and neck pain instantly gone while my child’s neck and back don’t have the strength to sit up. How does He feel when my heart feels it cannot utter one more prayer for healing and I leave the alter with my limp child. I feel the stares as I walk away…the pity?…feel the thoughts of what might be wrong with me that there is no healing? What would He say to me when those well meaning people come to peer in the stroller and my heart twists as I watch the expression on their face change and they don’t know what to say? Will He come to my house and dust off the toys on the shelf and say ‘get ready for your child to use these?’
This is my war and I think the war of millions of people the world over. This war is about holding onto the truth that God loves us no matter what our situation. The war here is to believe God has GOOD things even when the lights have been turned out and all we see are frightening shadows. It isn’t about A sick child. It is about the figurative sick child looming in everyone’s life.
Ok, you seem to be answering some specific questions so i will take a stab at this. You might be the only person that might have some insight:
What happens when the Lord shatters your heart so completely that you have no strength when you are in the spirit? I can’t sing a worship song without weeping. I am depressed and cannot do the things I need to do on a daily basis. The only way I can function is deny my heart/spirit(?) and move to the realm of the soul, where i can plan a future and take control. Suddenly i am filled with energy. Unfortunately there is no presence or abiding rest in that place. Am i suffering from weakness of spirit? Weakness of will? Or is this just a 15 year long, dark night of the soul?? Help…
Oh, and i attended a Streams seminar in Vancouver a month ago, but i left on the second day because it was so humiliating that God wasn’t giving me anything for anyone in the practice tutorials. Utter silence. It seems that when my heart is open i hear God, but when it is closed… not. But how does one keep it open when one is so utterly crushed? (I want to maintain some dignity!)
John Paul, I totally agree with your points on the war and spirit.Ephesians chapters 4,5,and 6.This is where I am turning to meditate and consider the comments thus far…Ephesians 5:8-21. Imparticular verse 14. Awake,you who sleep,Arise from the dead, And Christ will give you light. To the comments..I pray as we all pick John Pauls spiritual brain so to speak..that we pray about the truth and insight he is laying out. Our ways are not God’s ways, our thoughts not God’s thoughts, His ways are so much higher than ours, as God is in heaven and holds all truth in His being and essense.There is a battle in our ability to hear and perceive this truth, if we try to hard to understand in our soul,the true place of worship and revelation is …passing from the soul, to the spirit, and in the quiet of the holy of holies, God speaks by His spirit to our spirit…The battle is not ours says the Lord..So there is a battle…we trust Him to fight that battle,after we willingly put on the full armor of God. Ephesians 6:10. So in sincere faith and love we walk this spiritual awakening out, in love and fervently seeking the source, is how we move and live and have our being.In Christ alone I stand All other ground is sinking sand…if we actively seek and trust in Him, and quietly listen, I believe the battle is experienced, from a place of VICTORY. How ever it is where we stand in Christ,COVERED.. that insures that even in the darkest of times,GRACE AND MERCY AND TRUTH…ALWAYS PRODUCES THE FRIUT OF THE RELATIONSHIP…JUST REMEMBER WE CAN’T EVEN WANT THE THINGS OF GOD UNTIL HE IN HIS AWESOME LOVE..PLANTS HIS WONDERFUL LIGHT IN OUR SOMETIMES VERY DARKENED PERCEPTIONS…HE IS THE SHEPHERD…GUIDING US, FEEDING US, TENDING TO OUR WANDERINGS..OUR MISCONCEPTIONS ETC…TOTAL TRUST IS THE PLACE WHERE GOD HIDES US AND the Giants we face are slain.Because we go IN THE NAME OF THE LORD.To complete the journey knowing in my heart I am in faith pleasing God…knowing everyday I have a chance to..stay in spirit to Spitit..fellowship…like when I actually let the things of earth become strangely dim..in the LIGHT of HIS GLORY and GRACE..I enjoy this blogging very much…it gives me a place to say what is on my heart..and gain such insight from John Paul..and the others who comment….
Joshua,
God has a way of making the same point, clear. Some words are more communicatable to ‘you’ than other’s. Apostles understand the original point about the body, soul, and spirit through creation in Genesis Chapters 1-3. The terminology of the day way communcated, but the same-point was made, ‘clear’. John understood that point, also!!! Justice can provide more understanding of God’s Word and that is a ‘huge-point’ to know about!!!
Florida
Glory to God in the highest and peace to His people on earth we are seated in heavenly places with the Messiah we are above psalm 139 no matter where we are there He is.Bless you all for sharing your relationship with Abba with the rest of us lights more Lord more Lord more Lord being in the place of forgiveness allows forgiveness to flow out to others this is a great place to be connected spirit to spirit be filled be be be be I always get filled up reading these testimonies Greater things will you do in His name Shalom
John Paul, if you don’t mind– I wanted to share about my Aunt who is going through a very rough time in the dark night of the soul.
My Aunt had a very close relationship with God 6 or 7 years ago. She spoke with Him all day long and she could feel His weighty presence with her constantly. He was her best friend.
One day as she was driving, her car was struck by another and her car was completely totalled. She escaped with just scrapes and bruises and still had so much joy that she actually witnessed to the paramedic who came to rescue her. She would go through trial after trial and just amaze me with the amount of joy she maintained….. She always kept it together, knowing that God was with her.
A few nights later, she talked with God and told him good night. When she woke up the next day, she could no longer feel His presence around her. The weight of Him was gone. She cried out to Him, asking Him why He left her— and she has not heard a response since. For a very long time she went through a terrible grieving process. She lost her dad to cancer at a very young age and now she believes that God left her, for good. Several years have gone by and she has spiraled downhill….fast. She is 38 years old, living at home with her 78 year old mom, with no job, waiting for God to take her from this earth because of the pain and depression she is going through. Her health is failing her badly now. She is in constant pain, taking an obscene about of medication for just about every part of her body. Hearing worship music actually makes her angry because it reminds her of the relationship she used to have with God. I can’t even get her out of the house and it hurts me so badly to see her this way. I know she has entered the dark soul of the night and I know there is a purpose for her journey, but getting her to see that it is temporary is only something God can do. As each year passes, she asks herself, “Well, is this my year to be revived?”
I told her about a dream I had of her… she was in a coffin, but she wasn’t dead…. She was just sleeping. She said that she had the same exact dream 7 years ago before her car accident. Could it be that God showed her back then a glimpse of the wilderness time she is in now? Absolutely– I think in some way it encouraged her.
If you all could lift her up in prayer, I would really appreciate it. Her name is Kelley. I know she is really close to a breakthough.
I am brushing up on my 101 notes regarding the dark night of the soul. It certainly is very encouraging to know that there is a greater purpose for this season. Please know that I appreciate your ministry beyond measure!!
Sounds like the guy from Louisanna has been reading or following Rob Bell. Would you comment on those teachings, and contemplative spirituality. Like you haven’t before but would you again?
One of those, Thanks for sharing. I am thankful that you opened up and allowed me to come in to your “war”. I believe in the power of exposing those hidden things and want you to know what a blessing you are for being vulnerable. All I can say is that I am beginnning to understand the need to grieve with those who grieve. I know that it pleases our Daddy when we choose to trust Him in spite of how we feel. THanks for sharing and may the Lord of love visit your home with His peace and Presence!!!
Dallas Willard in his writings talks about having the spirit rule over the soul. He says ideally our spirit should be the number one ruling entity in our lives (God’s Spirit through our spirit). He further says that the spiritual disciplines are the means to practically do this. He says that what can happen (to my best recollection) is that either the body or the soul can and seeks to be the primary ruling entity. The body, with habits of sin, interacting with the soul, quenches the spirit. By submitting to the spiritual disciplines, the spirit gains preeminence.
My question for you JPJ & others is that for me, it’s good to understand where this SHOULD go, i.e., that my spirit should rule over my soul. It seems at times, though, the focus on living by my spirit can lead to a gnostic (spirit is good, body is bad) approach. For instance, fasting is good because it puts down the body and as a spiritual discipline, allows the spirit to rule. But it can go the wrong way as well. I wrestle with having a dualistic view, spirit vs. soul and compartmentalizing the two. Whereas, a friend of mine has helped in the past by saying that though we compartmentalize them, it’s really not so in reality, as we are whole beings. The Word of God separates soul and spirit. However, are we intended to live focusing on the separation? Does it lead us awry at times, that focus? Or is our being led awry the result of our heart condition? Is the focus on whether we are a living by our soul or spirit a proper focus, or is the soul, in it’s deceptiveness (is that even true), looking inward, and not relying on God to show the path?
Also, I’ve recently come across a Christian site that talks about self-assessment, utilizing several of the verses that say examine yourself to see if you are in the faith (#1), or a man ought to examine himself prior to taking the Lord’s supper (#2). Can that self-examination be soley a soul exercise? Obvious answer is that God would have us ask Him (search me O God and know me, show me my hidden faults; You lead me in the way everlasting Ps 139). But is our own self-assessment valid? Seems it can go down the road of simply a soulish exercise, and therefore can lead to deception.
Blessings,
Dennis
Further, I can’t think of anything worse (I probably could in all honesty) than thinking I’m doing something supposedly Christian that’s really not God’s Spirit at all. Yet, truth be told, I/we probably do that a lot. I’d rather (tongue in cheek) do something overtly that I know is wrong and know that it’s wrong than do something that I think is Christian that is veiled in deception and which I think is right. At least I know I can repent of the former. The latter, I think I’m in the right!
Blessings,
Dennis
Hey Ginger,
I don’t totally have an answer but I have read that people who go through traumatic experiences, for example the car accident, while they may be strong in the original response, the trauma hits the subconscious, soul level and then doubt sinks into the place. Sometimes that doubt says ‘Was God really there for me in that time of the trauma?” “Why did it happen at all?”
I have also read that many people when they experience trauma are cut off from their deep spiritual encounters, because the trauma, or accident triggers a faith or beleif they had established years ago that wasn’t in alignment with truth. I don’t know if this is what happened in the situation, but maybe the trauma of being in a car accident threatened or shook up inwardly what she felt was security in the Lord, and her security and faith in the Lord allowed her to access his presence where as now, the fear that he has left her has blocked her awareness from realizing that as the scriptures say ” he never leaves us nor forsakes us”
maybe this dark night of the soul is merely God trying to take her higher in his goodness, by uprooting a very very deep insecurity that God would abandon her?
just thoughts. bless ya!!
Hey JP…
i have a question(s):
what are your thought on those who say “speaking in tongues is the initial evidence of receiving the Holy Ghost and unless you speak in tongues you have not received the Holy Ghost and unless you receive the Holy Ghost you are going to hell” ?
i have many friends who believe this doctrine. conflict has never occurred over this but maybe you can give some suggestions in case it ever dose.
Ginger & Will,
First Ginger I wrote in an earlier Blog to Joe and maybe didn’t share full light of what i went thru earlier and still trien to fully come out of but sounds like your Aunt is struggling similar to what i have been but sounds like maybe a much longer time span.
Will I was just saying yesterday what is wrong with me! I don’t reach out to people anymore with love and minister the love of God to them. A client of mine came into the salon today and she had a stroke two weeks ago and she sat down in my chair and my friend/co-worker came over to pray for her and i drew a blank i could see nothing in the spirit nor hear nothing like i have been shut out from the kingdom. I use to be very sensitive to the spirit realm but something is blocking me and i really struggle with that but your comments about “her faith and security in the lord allowed her to access His presence maybe that is part of my answer because what we went thru made me not trust Him like i did before. I was the typical girl who grew up without a father so the Lord has dealt with me before about trust. I can shut someone out in a heart beat and not look back. Although He has dealt with me about that before too! So he has been teaching me to open up more to people and let them in. Even as i write this i just realized that in that 6 year period we were in Tennessee when i ministered to people i did minister in love but it was only one way. I loved on them only when i felt the Lord wanting to minister to them but never opened up to for them to really just see me for who i am and give them a chance to know me. Wow maybe my gifts are working to well but i just got a revelation of myself!
I look forward everyday to see what people have posted and am amazed at the relationships that are in progress as we type.
“One of those” I think many of us lay our “sick child” on the alter only to pick them up again and walk away in the same state in which we went to the alter. I have believed with everything inside of me for something and still walked away without my expected result. But i do know God sees the big picture and His ways are higher than ours and His understanding is not on the level where we usually operate. I do know that he can bring a miracle and in the same time deliver us from ourselves in the our mindsets and our blindspots. I have a child of my own and i know how your heart can break over your child. You want the very best for them. But i can’t say i know what you feel because my child is healthy but she does come home alot hurt from mean little girls in her class. She loves people and wants to be everyones friend
and i watch how mean other kids can be and i want to ring their little necks but you can’t! She just tells me “they’ve got devils mommy” LOL or “they’ve got issues, they need Jesus!” Yes your right we all need Jesus.
May your appointed time come of an encounter of the miraculous healing power of God to touch your child and bring forth a witness of the Kingdom of Heaven in your midst. May our hearts break for the lost as they do for our own children. Maybe you are witnessing the heart of the Father in a prophetic sense toward His child, you.
In His likeness
Shannon
Absolutely Will!
I think abandonment plays a major role. Ironicly, during this same time frame, she had been praying for a husband. She was praying that God would put a strong desire in her heart for the one she was to marry. When she started having these feelings towards a particular person (who happened to be a Christian singer), she thought for sure that he was the one. When things didn’t fall into place like she thought they would– she also grieved for him. It was around that time when she stopped hearing from God. I guess that could’ve been a clue, but it’s something I don’t think she ever recovered from. It has broken her and this seems to be the purpose.
From the 101
In the dark night of the soul, God helps us process:
1) Our disillusionment
2) Our hopes that were dashed
3) Our disappointments
4) Our agendas
Hopefully this is helping someone else…
Dear JP,
I am reading your posts from the far east & they have blessed & enlightened me. Just a question, as you know the Lord Jesus took many years to grow up into “Christlikeness” & He learnt obedience by the things He suffered over the years. Suffice to say no man was more plugged in to the True, Pure Spirit - God as He was, yet He did not just mature naturally. Could you explain the process of this beautiful transformation as we are connected to the True, Pure, Spirit - God? I know there will be trials, cruxificion of our passions & desires, putting on the Lord Jesus, resisting sin until bloodshed, gaining wisdom & experience etc… How can we recognize the “true” work of God in this transformation?
Kim,
I don’t think I have heard of “Rob Bell”. Going to look him up though… BRB
Ok, I just read an interview with him. I don’t think I have ever heard of him before.
Rom 1.20, Eze 9.4, Rev 22.4 - All creation speaks of a Creator. If we look close enough we will see the artist’s signature on their work.
We learn from the Word and the 101 reinforces the concept of observing our surroundings and asking God how it Speaks of Him, Yourself, or the Kingdom. Jesus often said, “The kingdom of heaven is like…”
Ginger,
I saw an image of her vehicle being totalled but she came out with minor injuries.
Then I had the image that she is like her car. She is being totalled but she will come out ok.
I am not saying that this is from the Lord, but it is something that came to mind.
The other thing that suggest to me that she is under strong spiritual attack is the anger. It sounds like she is being lied to spiritually. God doesn’t lie.
Will has pointed out that “He will never leave us or forsake us.”
Isa 41.17-19 also points to this answer from the Lord.
Let’s pray that her faith is increased. Jude 1.20
One of those,
Thanks for being so open. May we all come to a better understanding of Daddy’s love.
Ginger: I don’t know if this will help your Aunt but I heard a teaching on the Song of Solomon. There are several chapters where the Bride was looking for her Lover and couldn’t find him. (Chapter 3 and Chapter 5). This book (and actually the whole Bible) is a type of our Christian experience. We should be able to see ourselves in the Bible. The Lord purposefully withdraws himself so we will seek Him. Encourage her to read Song of Solomon with this in mind. Hope this helps her to know this because it sure was refreshing to me!!!!
I’ve been thinking a lot on the comments that have been posted here, and I think that JP rounds it up well, when He says “If one is really seeking for the One, True, Spirit, - God – He will be found.”
This is so profound and extensive that I beleive it is the resolve to a great number of things that come our way on this journey…
If God cannot be found, and if we keep seeking we will eventually find Him…if we keep asking He will eventually answer…
If we don’t give up, eventually we will get there…Persistance and patience work lifelong miracles…
Ginger, it seems to me, like Aunt Kelley was on the top of the mountain of blessing with God, and she fell off a cliff, into the valley of the shadow of death…It is time for her to see that the same God that was with her on the top of the mountain, is present with her in the valley…it is in the time of greatest resistance that one usually sees and experiences the greatness of God to deliver! But she must walk through the valley…I beleive that she will only truly leave that valley by foot…She may experience times of release but the journey in that place will only come to an end when she has walked the distance…
Then the next time He draws away for a moment, she will not be shaken or perplexed because now she knows the makeup of the greatness of His love!
One more thing, before I came to the Lord for good, I did alcahol and drugs for 7 years (i’ve been delivered now for 6 years and a couple months)…had two car accidents in three days where both were totalled and I only came out of them with a small little cut on a finger and a saw wrist…I’m still dealing with issues in my life today, but you know what got me through all of that? Gods grace and mercy for me, His love and purpose, and my dear praying father. If he hadn’t prayed for me, today I wouldn’t I might not be…That and walking the valley. I still haven’t come out of it (I have walked a distance but I still feel like I’m not through yet), but from where I am now, I can already see the top of the mountain…
Lets keep praying for Aunt Kelley, it is so important that we do that…lets pray for each other, for all that everyone is going through…
Superman is dead, and we all need each other…may God’s mercy shine upon us all, till Christ be fully formed in us!
Love to all…
God Bless!
PS: your posts have been a great blessing, you are all great!
Thank you David. My Grandma confirms that there is alot of anger. I appreciate yours words.
Like One of Those has said…. sometimes we just want to know that God loves us. To feel it again… I know that with my Aunt, I can tell her 100 times, but she won’t accept it as truth.
I would like to think that most people pull out of it and realize– wow, that is crazy talk. Of course God loves me, where others are so under the influence of deception that they don’t have the strength to CHOOSE the truth. That’s what it call comes down to, doesn’t it? Choosing to accept the truth, choosing to live by faith, choosing to resist the attacks of the enemy. Like JP says, “What you focus on you make room for”.
I’ve always thought about Mark 13:22 where it says, “For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform signs and miracles to deceive the elect—if that were possible.”
The “if that were possible” part intrigues me. How could the elect be deceived?
Here’s an analogy. Ever heard of the illusion artist Criss Angel? People are so fascinated by him, by “seeing” something supernatural. If we could see the truth on what is really going on, we would know it’s a counterfeit, but people still question whether he truly has supernatural powers.
In our clouded vision, we accept something counterfeit as being truth. It can happen to the worst of us– it can happen to the elect.
I like to ask my 4 year old son if he sees Jesus in the room with us. When he says no, I tell him to close his eyes. With a bright smile he says, “Mom, I see Jesus”!
Closing our eyes is easy when we are expecting something good to happen. It’s not so easy when we don’t fully trust God to take care of us. Just something to think about I guess…
hey this comment is to one of the commentee’s…
DAVID if you see this, i see you are from louisiana. i am too. i was wondering what part of louisiana are you from.
blessings!
devandubois7@yahoo.com
Job - I have been where you are. I had to push through the darkness - walking out my salvation in fear and trembling as scripture states.
And remember this one simple thing “though He slay me, still I will trust Him” And say it out loud and mean it. When I could speak this statement and mean it from my heart, peace began to overwhelm me.
Grace and peace to you,
Jena
Ginger,
It was Mike Bickle, John Paul’s KC pastor who said that at times when God is silent, he will reveal the idolatry in our hearts. After Israel had seen the mighty hand of God, and had danced on the other side of the Red Sea, they had a terrible period of “silence” for forty days. Moses went to receive God’s law, and did not give them a specific time frame for his return. When the people did not hear from God and the demonstration of his power seemed to wane, they produced the calf that was always in their hearts.
When David felt that God had forsaken him, he poured out his complaint, disappointment and grief to the Lord in the Psalms. Since we know that God promises never to leave his people, you can be certain that your aunt is being lied to by the Father of lies. I remember about four years ago, I had a spiritual flatline experience. I was hospitalized rather suddenly, and I did not see it coming at all. And you know how prophetic people think that God should consult us on everything! I wasn’t necessarily angry or in despair, I just had a disconnect. As if I had been unplugged from a source, and could not rouse myself one way or the other. Thank God for the prayers and encouragement of my family and the brethren, who carried my burden when I felt I could not. Continue to encourage and lift your aunt in prayer.
John Paul, you cited Paul’s vision of the man in Macedonia as evidence that believers can communicate spirit to spirit to each other. But wasn’t this man more symbolic of the a general bidding of the Spirit to preach the gospel in Macedonia, than doctrinal support for spirit to spirit communication among believers separated by distance?
I am not certain if I may have misinterpreted the question or your response, but am certainly interested in learning more.
Blessings
Nazach
Michelle, Antonio, and Nazach,
Thank you SO much for sharing your insight and experiences with me. It has encouraged me tremendously! May God show me wisdom in approaching her when sharing these encouragements.
God has shown me something about my responses as I re-read them. They appear to be written out of frustration for not getting through to her, so even I know that I haven’t had the right attitude towards it. Forgive me Father. I know better…to press on and see past the now. Like Antonio said, persistance and patience will work lifelong miracles. God initiates and perfects our faith– I trust Him to do with us as He wishes. This encouragement was definitly for me.
Thank you all again so much!
always Love,
Ginger
Another thing I wanted to add just briefly.
I was born and raised in a church that was heavily under the influence of deception. My whole family was in it. I grew up thinking how lucky I was to belong to this church because according to our doctrine, we were saved just for being members. As a kid, I thanked God for choosing me and my family. I was so happy to know that He loved me that much to place me in that church.
Then when I was around 17 years old, the church doctrine began to change(Praise God! People were praying for our massive church– for the chains to be broken. Talk about a WAR for souls!). I thought it was a test from God– are you going to stick to the old way and be saved, or go off on this new way of thinking and be condemned. It was a horrible struggle. One by one church members started to leave. My family and church dwindled. No more weekly meeetings to see the people we had grown to love. We stopped seeing our family regularly also. I was confused, upset that I had been lied to and that my family had been torn apart, and decided to live my life the way I wanted to. My salvation was up in the air because I NEVER ONCE THOUGHT ABOUT IT.
I moved away from home and eventually when I was 23 years old, it was my Aunt Kelley…. my precious, spirit filled, on fire for Christ Aunt who posed some very important questions to me on the phone…. Without hesitation… that day I found the true Jesus and immediately He baptized my heart with fire.
God chose Kelley to go down the line of family members, first Grandma then my mom, then me…. the 4 of us had such a new love for one another. They are my sisters. For the first time I could see Jesus…. through them. We travelled together, going from conference to conference– going wherever the Spirit would lead us. There are so many stories I could share of the divine appointments…. but Aunt Kelley was my sponsor in a way… She allowed God to take me places that furthered my experiences in Him.
So you see– I really feel like everyone else has given up. Tired and frustrated– seeing her in agony. I want to be the one to come and rescue her– to be HER sponsor sort of speak. To take her places that will further her experiences. She invested in me. I just want to invest back into her.
That’s it. Thanks for reading.
Devan,
North central, about 15 miles north of Ruston.
how about you?
Hey Ginger. I would say maybe you could be the one who sponsors her, but on a whole new level. Maybe you don’t need to confrot her at all.. maybe you could confront the spiritual situation.
In your prayers, Possibly you could pray something like this “Thank you God that you love my aunt and do not want her to be pushed away from your presence, and that you are jealous for her love. I thank you that her spirit is connected to you and that somehow her mind heart and soul are going to be reminded of her love for you. Thank you that the ever beckoning heavenly call for her even now is awakening her to the power of your mercy, that truly all things work together for Good and that you never leave her.” etc etc.
You know I noticed a while back that sometimes when we pray, we pray the good or evil instead of the true of life. We pray about justice, we pray about righting wrongs, we pray about something that isn’t right.. you know, and sometimes we need to just step back and pray for the life. Aligning ourselves with Christ aligning ourselves with the tree of life, changes our prayer time, and prayer lifestyle, and suddenly all prayers are answered in divine ways. Your aunt is closer to the light than it may appear, since God never left her. There is just a form of darkness that blocks her sight..
So i just thank Jesus that your aunts eyes are open, that she can see the truth, that truth is wrapped around her, that her spirit is soaring in heavenly places, that she is going to be re-set to the frequencies of heaven. I thank God that he never leaves us, and that includes her, and that he is going to reveal to her the powerful network of angels, saints, and creatures of heaven that were all around her during the accident. I thank God that the mergence of heaven into her life is already happening as we speak.
the greatest investment I beleive we can do for someone is invest into them Love, Hope, and beleive for their future as though it is already now. THeir greater future, their divine birthright, their vision, their goals and their purpose in the earth.. can be called forth and beleive that those people are walking it out even when they aren’t has profound effects. I have had experiences where what I beleive about a person, they Suddenly line up with it and are exactly what I beleive about them in my presence, and they will talk about all kinds of miraculous things, but then they walk away from me and get in the presence of someone else and act totally different. dr jekel and mr hyde sort of syndrome, but its because other people beleive differently and have sight of them differently when they are around. Its profound how we effect others.
so maybe just act like she never had this shift in her spirit life, just act as if she was how she was and is going to be!! Talk to her like she is deeply immersed in God already because she is!!
As you spend time with Jesus, and his residue resides on your life, I beleive that Ginger, you will lead many into his presence just without words, but by your simple love for the king, and that includes your aunt. You already radiate so much of God, so the more that flows out of you, the more people are going to stop and notice…its just natural…
so, i look foreward to hearing the great news very soon of how its all turned around and she is walking even deeper in Gods love…
Dear Ginger,
Remember the bible tells us that God alone is wise. He does works which we can’t comprehend. I don’t have the answers for you but perhaps this thing happened that your aunt’s experience may tell a story; an everlasting testimony of God’s presence. In fact Jesus suffered the same ordeal when God left Him during the crucifixion & that tells us He personally knows her sufferings. You know sometimes our knowledge could resist God’s purposes like Job’s friends did when they judged Job. Could her life be working for a greater & more eternal purpose in the plan of God?
Blessings,
James.
Hi John Paul,
Why do angles and or demons appear to have copporeal form? Some see them as little monkeys ect. Is the spiritual realm then just part of matter, speeded up perhaps? What is the reason God created the physical world? Wouldnt it have been easier, since He is Spirit, to make Spiritual beings only? What is the physical realm for?
Thanks,
Vincent